"Kolinsky Sable Brushes Not For Acrylics?" Topic

Was explaining to my daughter why I used brush soap, which then led to what a sable was, and I found this on the Binder's Art blog:

Kolinsky Sables are best used with traditional painting media like watercolor or oil paint. NEVER use your Kolinsky brushes with acrylic paint! Even if you clean the acrylics thoroughly after every use, the nature of the polymer emulsion will eventually dry out the hairs and cause them to break, ruining a brush that you have paid a pretty penny for.

I have a bunch of Winsor Newton 7 brushes…have I been wrong all this time?

jeff

There's an echo in here.

Total BS, man. I've been using ONLY Series 7 brushes for years and they last until they wear out from painting around 4-500 miniatures. Cheaper brushes don't last nearly as long, nor do the Series 7 that I use for my ink drawing last any longer. Wash them carefully and they will last a long time regardless of the medium you are painting with.

I believe brush soap actually restores the brushes and not just cleans them. I've also had my Winsor Newton and Vallejo brushes for awhile and they are fine so long as they are cleaned carefully. ALSO, take the time and clean during painting sessions, even if you aren't changing colours.

My 5/0 Reaper Kolinsky is just about used up. I have had it for at least 2 years several hundred minis all acrylic paint, never a problem, best brush I have ever used.

This thread reminded me to buy one…

It is hair, you can use a shampoo with conditioner to help restore its condition as well.

I use Series 7 and have for many years with no additional wear and tear from acrylics. Every once in awhile I use cheaper brushes and they just don't last.

The little tub of brush soap has lasted mo over 30 years ans is maybe 15 percent used. I will be dead before it gets used up.

No problems here with my Series 7. I yse a fine mesh screen when I clean them and that seems to get the gunk out. They take a point really well.

David S.

Where is a good place to get Windsor 7s these days? And brush soap?

I use Escoda Optimo Kolinsky Sable brushes (better the WN #7 and cheaper) and Escoda advertises them for acrylic and oil painting. I use Pink Soap to clean them, and rub a tiny bit into the brushes when done. These brushes are amazing.

Sorry guys. I own about a dozen sable brushes which I bought on sale based on reports/recommendations similar to those in this thread. Im a below average painter and must be somewhat lazy about cleaning brushes since my sable ones dont last all that well. Synthetic brushes when new do as good a job as I need. Perhaps if taken better care of the sable brushes last longer but for us average guys I dont think they are worth the investment.

I'm actually in agreement with Allen on this one. I paint my miniatures with synthetics. Cheaper synthetics at that.

I have used sables and high end synthetics. Not worth he extra money for my miniatures painting.

When it comes to my artist painting on the other hand… Then I use the high end brushes, brush soap, and take very good care of them indeed.

However there is no reason why you can't use acrylic paints with sable brushes. Indeed a great many professional painters do just that.

Yeah, I've no doubt Kevin Dallimore could do great work with a #2 pencil for a brush, but I've gravitated towards the higher-end sables. For me, the problem with synthetics and cheaper sable brushes was losing their points. Synthetics, in particular, seemed to get "bendy" at the ends. Since I'm no maestro, I need all the help I can get. :-)
I'm just getting back in after five years, and bought my better brushes, back in the day, through Dick Blick. I was very surprised to see a retailer like Binder's make a statement like that about sables and acrylics…

jeff

I've had nothing but problems with synthetic or mixed nylon/sable brushes. The tips always ALWAYS split and render the brush useless.

My Reaper 10/0 Kolinsky lasts a long time.

Sables always last longer for me. Cheap brushes die fast, that is why they are cheap.

Nothing beats Sable for control and detail with acrylic paint. Since no brush lasts forever make sure you enhance your investment by also investing in brushes. Just throw them away when they give up the ghost and don't look back.

Yep me to have been using Kolinsky brushes for years with acrylic paint, from Valejo, GW, Windsor and newton, and I even use them for enamal paint.

Clean with soap and use liquid plastic cement to dip the brushes in to get rid of any build up of paint after a few weeks of painting.

William

Hi, how does the liquid cement clean the brushes?

Thanks,

John

I use brush soap. I only use sable for figure painting but I don't buy expensive ones like the W&N Series 7. My local art shop orders in batches of Daler Rowney S.34 which are about half the price of the Series 7. I choose the best when they get a new stock in. I would think I get about 3 years use out of a brush before it gets relegated for dry brushing or basing use.

I've have some Series 7 brushes and whilst they are lovely brushes of a morse consistent quality I don't feel that I need them for miniatures painting since I think I get just as useful a brush by hand picking the best from the cheaper range.

I've used W&N Series 7's almost exclusively for the last ten years. My first half a dozen series 7's lasted me almost nine years and painted almost 20,000 15mm figures.

My wife bought me a new set for Xmas last year. This year they've painted almost 4,000 figures and look like new still.

I have been using the brush soap with them the whole time.

From my experience you get what you pay for with brushes.

Kev

On that basis buying more expensive is clearly worth it. Can you get these S7's with long bristles? The two I own have quite short bristles and for one of the the techniques I use I have to have long bristle brushes which is one reason I hand pick brushes.

Measuring mine Timmo…

000 – 5mm
00 – 6mm
0 – 9mm
1 – 11mm
2 – 8mm
3 – 11mm

I get mine on Amazon as I find they're cheaper than from art shops, along with the brush soap. Plus you can get free delivery.

I really do think they're worth it though it depends how you use them and how you look after them. Mine didn't develop a hooked tip until the last couple of months of their nine year careers, at which point they were replaced.

Kev

Cheers. I pretty much paint all my stuff with sizes 0 and 1 but the measurements you give are perfect. I've got two Daler Rowney size 1's that are amazing. I've had them for a couple of years and they hold a long fine point.

However, I'm going to take another look at these S7 brushes. You paint far more than I do and if you're getting nine years out of them then it's a no brainer for me to change over.

I use brush soap and I do look after my brushes well.

I've been using Kolinski Sables for about fifteen years, including Liquitex(a free-bee from them!), Escoda, Imex, Vallejo, Reaper and Winsor-Newton Series 7 & Cirrus series.

I've found that for 28mm I like the Reaper #1 as they're very sturdy and have enough point on them for the larger figures, but I prefer my W-N S7 #1 for my 15mm army painting, no belt buckle escapes the points on these brushes! Imex were, for the $5 USD I used to pay for them, pretty good for 15s, but nowhere as sturdy as the W-N S7. Just my 2¢.

I use Pink Soap to clean my brushes as it tends to be easier on the brushes than the soap bar cleaners.

" NEVER use your Kolinsky brushes with acrylic paint! "
Ridiculous !

So what are you supposed to use? Syntethtic and have a nice hook shaped brusn after a few uses? Hog bristle?

I've got some of the Rosemary & Co. Kolinsky and Red Sable not quite W&S, but very nice and CHEAP! lie $3 USD or $4 USD @

I use sable blends and Kolinsky from Rosemary, using craft paint and Sherwin Williams house paint -- that no-acrylics business is poppycock.

BTW, if your brushes are losing it, try a good long soak in Winsor & Newton Brush cleaner and restorer. It dissolves long-dried acrylic paint that gets lodged up by the ferrule and destroys the point.

The only restriction I apply to my W&N Series 7 brushes is based more on the type of model I'm painting rather than the type of paint. I've been using Kolinsky sable brushes (or premium Russian weasel butt-hair brushes as was refered to by an aquaintance on another board) with various acrylic paints for about seven or eight years now with no issue.

What I won't use them on are models with lots of hard square edges like my CAV models or most of my starship models. Those are hell on any kind of brush so I use the Hobby Lobby store brand synthetics on those. Any kind of character or monster figure though will get the sable treatment.

I honestly would love to know how those who use synthetic brushes manage it. I have had 100% of any below about size 4 get a hooked tip within the first hour of use – and I must have tried 20 brands/ranges.

I am VERY hard on brushes and use between 3 and 6 WN S7 miniature #1 a year. I use them for almost every part of figures and paint nothing larger than 10mm.

According to W&N the brush cleaner they sell in the UK is not effective on Acrylics.

The amount of time I spend painting (I do it as a business) the cost of those brushes is tiny compared to the time I save in making the job of painting so much easier. I'm not saying that cheap brushes can't do a good job but good brushes make it a lot easier and less stressful.

Having never used a brush soap/cleaner what do you recommend I try (UK available brands please)?

I have used white nylon and synthetics for 30 years. I tend to have mine last for about 6 months to a year. I do tend to use several at a time though.

Thanks,

John

I use W/N Series 7 and Vallejo Kolinski Sable brushes. I also use Masters Brush Soap and Pink Soap. I also will use human hair conditioner (any flavor) to restore the brushes when they start looking really dry.

Don't use them for acrylics -- bologna!!!! In fact, the W/N Series 7 miniatures brushes are made for minis. You can use the traditionally Series 7's with the longer bristles or the mini's for miniatures -- your choice -- same quality.

@Elenderil -- go to an art supply store and ask what they recommend for brush cleaner. I use both Master's Brush Soap (a cake of soap) or Pink Soap in a bottle. I also use W/N Brush Cleaner (in the US) and it removes all kinds of nasty stuff from brushes (including white glue).

Hi John
Sorry about not getting back sooner.

The liquid cement disolves all the gunk that accumulates at teh base of the brush. If it is natural fibers it does not damage the brush, and can completly renew a bruch that has a large build up of paint residue at the base of the hairs.
William

Surgical Spirit is also very good for cleaning gunked up acrylic paint from brushes; you can buy it in Chemists/Pharmacies.

After sitting in a box, my brushes were dry, but some of my wife's hair conditioner really did the trick.

"In fact, the W/N Series 7 miniatures brushes are made for minis. You can use the traditionally Series 7's with the longer bristles or the mini's for miniatures -- your choice -- same quality."

Until reading this I hadn't realised there were two series of Series 7; I had noted that the bristles seemed shorter but simply assumed this was down to a manufacturing changes.

I must look out for the longer bristle versions as I much prefer the way they work when painting.

link

Here is the link. Scroll down to the bottom of the page and you will see the difference in the bristle length.

Thank you for that link.

I've downloaded the booklet and the serial numbers in readiness for my next trip the London Graphics Centre which, like the 4-D Model Shop, is a veritable treasure cave.

Thanks for all the info here, especially the Warstore sweetie. I went ahead and bought a 5 pack of WN Series 7 brushes and pink soap. I'll be picking up Master's brush cleaner too.

Thanks,

John

I suspect the acrylic paint the article might refer to is "artist acrylics" which are a paste which mimic oil paints, there is plenty of evidence above to suggest miniatures paint has little to no effect with proper brush maintenance.

I find a bar of "baby soap" has been excellent for cleaning my kolinsky sable brushes and has lanolin as part of the formulation to help condition the bristle, try it you will be surprised how well it works.

Soap will also remove ferule trapped paint perfectly well. Use your palm and keep dragging the the head of the brush in the direction of the handle adding soap and water as needed and you will see the dried paint deposited in the lather.

Be extremely careful when using solvents to clean your brushes as these cause more long term damage than good, rinse thoroughly and condition straight away. Hair conditioner also is perfectly acceptable for use on your brushes

regards
dave

There is only one answer to the contention that acrylics of any kind will ruin kolinsky brushes, and that is that this whole line of reasoning is complete and utter cobblers.

I saw someone recommend the Rosemary and Co series 33. Thought this may be of interest, a review comparing them with the W&N Series 7 Min range.
link