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"The Spanish-American War going international" Topic


13 Posts

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589 hits since 30 Sep 2012
©1994-2014 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

138SquadronRAF Supporting Member of TMP30 Sep 2012 8:09 p.m. PST

Gentlemen, I would welcome your thoughts on the following:

On 3rd July 1898 SMS Kaiserin und Königin Maria Theresia approached the harbour of Santiago, Cuba on an humanitarian mission. Through unfortantel timing this was the day that the Spanish squadron attempted to break the American blockade. The Austrina vessel was initially incorrectly identified as Spanish by the USS Indiana. At the last minute someone correctly identified the vessel and no shots were fired.

But what if the gung-ho US navy had shot at the Austrians, what would have been the consequences of this beyond a nasty dipolmatic incident?

Could we have the prospect of a Central Powers/US War in 1898 and could it have spread further? If so,some suggestions would be welcome.

Personal logo John the OFM Supporting Member of TMP30 Sep 2012 8:18 p.m. PST

The US and Germany nearly went to war over Samoa in 1899, until a cyclone sunk both squadrons.
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kyoteblue Supporting Member of TMP30 Sep 2012 9:59 p.m. PST

I blame Cthulhu my self…

The Monstrous Jake01 Oct 2012 1:50 a.m. PST

I've been playing with hypothetical German vs. US naval encounters set in 1898 for the last few years now. Some very interesting situations are possible.

The scenario that got me started on the subject was printed in the old Metagaming micro boardgame "Fire When Ready" published in 1982. Highly hypothetical of course, with two German battleships and some cruisers and gunboats doing battle with a roughly equal-sized US force.

Rudi the german01 Oct 2012 2:26 a.m. PST

link

Teddy and Billy were Good buddies… At this Time this was only Show for the masses in private they were Good friends. Billy went Even to Arizona huntig with Teddy and both founded the German- American Regatta.

link

Billy had a Problem with the brittisch as his Arm was amputeted by a english doctor at birth.

The Samoa incident was later Brown up in the Rage of ww1 Ect.. Billy got a Peace doctor title from a english University because he fixed it. In 1905 was Even a Book Published which Warned of a war with England and the US.
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Have Fun…

Personal logo Virtualscratchbuilder Supporting Member of TMP Fezian01 Oct 2012 3:24 a.m. PST

One of my favorites. I have a "Spanish navy of Revenge" centered on Pelayo that has been bolstered by "donations" as well as Deitrich's squadron ready to take on those Yanks. I go out to about 1901 and the Americans of course have retained Retvizan and Variag…. And so on…

Personal logo Texas Jack Supporting Member of TMP01 Oct 2012 3:59 a.m. PST

I´ve gamed this many times with many different combinations of allies, some logical, some not so.

The Atlantic side is interesting because you can throw in Germany coming to the assistance of Spain, and perhaps even include Austria due to all the cross cultural ties involved. The Spanish, of course, would not have been so timid with Pelayo, and you could even suggest that Cristobol Colon had had her main armament installed after all.
All that really hard presses the USN, and to find an ally in that neck of the woods would be difficult indeed. But the USN has the advantage of being able to fight close to their coaling stations, and perhaps Germany would not be so comfortable sending her whole fleet and leaving her shores nearly unprotected from, for example, England. This could work.

But the Pacific is where the real fun begins. Here, with the influence of China, there are a myriad of possibilities of alliances. Most combinations have a nearly fatal flaw, but if you over look them you could have good fun. Here are some of my favorites:
USN vs Spain and Germany, and perhaps Austria
USN and Russia vs the above as well as France
USN and Japan vs any combination of the above.

There are others, but these are the ones that play the best. I have left out the Royal Navy because anyone they are allied with will most likely win, unless you start subtracting ships for protecting the Empire.

The main thing for Manila Bay is to give Dewey at least a monitor until the big boys can arrive from the Caribbean, otherwise he hasn´t a chance.

I´ve only done the naval aspect of this, but I imagine the ground campaign would be loads of fun too!

Oddball01 Oct 2012 4:15 a.m. PST

There was also a German Squadron in the Philippines when the US was floating around waiting to land troops. If I remember correctly, the Spanish wanted to surrender the islands to the Germans, so the US couldn't get it.

Always thought that would make an interesting scenario.

basileus66 Supporting Member of TMP01 Oct 2012 7:34 a.m. PST

Spain sounded both Germany and Japan to sell them the Philippines, to avoid the US conquering the islands. The Germans were marginally more interested than the Japanese (they were focused on Korea and China, at the time), but not enough to start a war with America.

I toyed with the idea that Japan and Germany did accept share the islands as a protectorate, buying them from Spain and then forcing a peace settlement with the US. In 1905, at the start of the Russian-Japanese War, the US saw a chance to return the 'favor' to the Japanese and sent a squadron to the Philippines, to force them to sale their share to America in return of US neutrality. The Japanese would have refused; after checking with Germany both would agree to defend the Philippines by force. US and Russia would have signed a defensive treaty, and America would have go to war with a Japanese-German alliance.

In my scenario, the British mobilized their Pacific squadrons to keep watch on the belligerents and guaranteeing the freedom of shipping in the Chinese coast, but without going actually to war. France would have also declared her neutrality, as she wasn't sure of how the British would react in case they would attack Germany for the Philippines.

brass1 Supporting Member of TMP01 Oct 2012 8:50 a.m. PST

Billy had a Problem with the brittisch as his Arm was amputeted by a english doctor at birth.

Didn't happen. Kaiser Bill's left arm was 6" shorter than his right, due to complications during delivery when he was born, and he went to great lengths to conceal it but it was still attached.

The Kaiser's problems with his British cousins were considerably more complex that that.

LT

Personal logo Virtualscratchbuilder Supporting Member of TMP Fezian01 Oct 2012 9:44 a.m. PST

The Germans were marginally more interested than the Japanese (they were focused on Korea and China, at the time), but not enough to start a war with America.

My understanding is the German squadron had orders to use whatever force necessary to remove Dewey from the area. I believe that after dragging his feet for a while, the German commander, who had a superior squadron, was actually steaming into the harbor to attack Dewey when he realized a British armored cruiser had intentionally anchored among the American ships and thus drew off. The German, French and Austrians together petitioned the British ambassador in NY to join in against the Americans and were surprised to find the British pro-American.

Old Jarhead Inactive Member01 Oct 2012 11:04 a.m. PST

there is an interesting book "1901" which deals in part with a naval war between USA and Imperial Germany.

Personal logo McKinstry Supporting Member of TMP Fezian01 Oct 2012 9:31 p.m. PST

It is worthwhile to remember that the Austrian emperor intensely disliked the United States who he blamed in large part for the death of his brother Maximillian.

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