"German Infantry Green Tunics: I Don't Understand" Topic

There was a reed green summer uniform in the early stages of the war if I recall correctly.

Looked it up, they used it in midwar too
link

In the artwork, they have stone grey trousers as well. The M1936 tunic was much greener than its successors and the trousers shifted to the same fabric as the tunic. Also note that the tunics are illustrated as having the dark bottle green collars which is correct for the "greener" shade of fabric.

While the illustration is simply artwork, it still does accurately depict the essence of the 1939-1940 era soldiers.

Apparently the green uniforms were used in 41 and on too in the summer.

Reed green summer tunics did not have a bottle green collar.

Reed Green uniforms were popular in the summer, they are made of a demin material. Many army officers, you bought their own uniforms had a wool tunic for winter in grey/green and a demin tunic for summer in reed green. The cut was the same. Material shortages by 1943 phased out official and un-official reeed green uniforms.

The reed green faded very quickly so consider mixing white into the reed green if you paint it.

I'm not sure I understand the questions, so what do you think field gray actually looks like?

German "Reed Green" uniforms were fatigue uniforms, and were what you were supposed to wear when doing labor. They were indeed on the same cut as the field uniform, though they "wore" slightly different. And like any military organization, they sometimes found their way into use in combat.

Damon.

The original question was concerning the artwork by Bolt Action and why the tunics are so "green".

The answer, the artist has illustrated the M36 tunic which was much greener in color than its replacments: M40, M44, M44. All of which became more and more grey and eventually grey-brown as the quality of the available wool fabrics decreased.

IIRC "Field Gray" was much more green than Hollywood would have us think…

IIRC "Field Gray" was much more green than Hollywood would have us think…

This is what I was getting at. Field Grey was actually a fairly dark green color with a greyish tinge, such that IIRC French soldiers referred to the Germans as "stringbeans." It also varied considerably, with the green to grey balance shifting during the war, or yes a more olive or brownish color. But a pure grey uniform it was not.

Damon.

Unfortunately illustrators (be they box art or Ospreys) do a poor job of correctly depicting feldgrau. If you want to know what WWII German tunics really looked like, pick up or borrow a copy of "Feldbluse: The German soldier's field tunic 1933-45" by Laurent Huart and Jean-Phillipe Borg. It will answer any question you may have.

early field grey a bit green.,. trousers definately grey
try vallejo German uniform for he tunic..as the war progressed the uniform became shoddier and browner,,actually I think Warlord are spot on for the early war tunic.
reed green looks much shabbier than the cover art

and very dark green helmets..also the gasmask container would be the same dark green

As above, they are an artists attempt at 'early war Germans', and which exaggerates the contrast between the steingrau trousers and feldgrau M36 jackets. You can tell they are 'early war' as the NCO has a field torch, which for some reason people think is an iconic bit of early war kit. The jackets also have bottle green collars which can be an indicator of 'early war' M36 jackets, although a certain number turned up in Normandy tacked onto M40 and M43 jackets as some of the garrison troops had far too much time on their hands and customised ther kit so as to look like veterans.

Stone grey really is quite grey, but field grey is not virulent bright green, more of a greenish grey (subject to the usual colour variations mentioned above).

Some modern repro WW2 German jackets are also a ludicrous bright green, and to be avoided.

Reed green jackets and trousers were a darkish green cotton twill (rather than the wool of M36/40/43/44 uniforms) which faded very quickly to what has been described in some places as 'piss yellow'. Reed green cotton uniforms were more of a mid/late war thing.

It couldn't be simpler. Field Grey was a sort of grey-green, while Reed Green was a sort of green-grey.

:o)

The Feldgrau of WWII was the JagerGrun of WWI. World war One feld grau is truly grey, while the Jager regiments wore a green colour. The switch came after 1918 through the era of the Freikorps and the transition to the Reichswehr.

Even in WWII the pre-war green tunic with dark green facings on collar and shoulderstraps was the preferred uniform, at least for formal purposes. One often sees the later uniforms with the collar and cuffs of the green tunic added on for style.

"Even in WWII the pre-war green tunic with dark green facings on collar and shoulderstraps was the preferred uniform, at least for formal purposes. One often sees the later uniforms with the collar and cuffs of the green tunic added on for style."

Very true, wargamers often get upset at 1944/45 Germans with Dark Green collars was common amoungst officers and some NCOs as they would keep their collars an shoulder straps and have them tailored on the new issue tunic.

The pre-war and early war German uniform was a gray-green jacket with dark blue-green collar and shoulder straps over slate-gray trousers. As the war wore on "field gray" became more gray and less "field" (green), and the trousers and jackets more often matched each other. Also, the dark green disappeared from the collar and shoulder straps -- in short, the uniforms were simplified.

I have a bottle of the out of production Ceramcoat "Hammered Iron." It's perfect for the gray-green jackets. Bummer they no longer make it.

Tim, it is my view that Feldgrau is more of a region than a nation…err, or something like that.

Take a look here, IMO an excellent reference with helpful pics – link

And especially the pic about 2/3 of the way down the page with the tunics laid out in a veritable prism of feldgrau. Its not just a colour, its an adventure!

Hope that helps!

link

I like the author's tone……

"If all originals matched, then we would do it. Our measuring sticks are originals, not the fantasies of Professorus-Emeritus-Knowitallicus-Reenactoricallus."

"You're a farb." I'm going to remember that one.

Duck

"there were no real contrast between tunic and trousers that I recall"

Well, for most of the war there wasn't, trousers and tunic were all field grey. Stone grey trousers were a very early war phenomenon.

It was all covered very adequately in Andrew Mollo's 'WW2 Army Uniforms ' which was pretty much my only uniform reference for most of the 1970s….

"Our measuring sticks are originals, not the fantasies of Professorus-Emeritus-Knowitallicus-Reenactoricallus."

Very amusing. You will note on that particular sites 'Heer uniform/wool trousers' section that they sell both field grey and stone grey M37 trousers….

Tim the easist thing to do is to use artistic license. Heck, the Bolt Action artist did just as the illustrators for Osprey Publishing, Concord Press, and Squadron Publishing do. If if looks good to your eyes, then it is good. There is no way to paint true realism and expect to achieve any level of production. You would have to paint units up for each of the war's years and seasons to represent the gradual shift in fabric quality and use. We could really muddy the conversation and introduce captured fabric stocks into the explaination. (yikes!)

Last bit of advice on using artistic license; too grey and too green are both going to be perceived as "off".

Take tamiya Field gray and you are on the safe side for commun soldiers. NCOs and officer could go to a local taylor and than they took the closed colour or the most expensive fabric… So don't bother for officer if you have the right colour.

This is one of the reasons not to get too hung up on the perfectly accurate color for uniforms in many periods. Between shade differences in the production of materials, and the impact of wearing the uniform in the field for long periods of time (impact of wear and tear, fading, mud, etc), a "parade ground" color was not the norm.

CPBelt – I think you might mean Palmer's Prismacolor 'Forged Iron' which is a great field gray. They may not still make it, their website is not good. They are great quality paints though, and their metallics are amazing.

I was trying to remember where to find this photo:

The jacket at the bottom of the pile, at the far left, is what was regulation at the beginning of the war, and evidently common through 1940 at least. It was worn with slate gray trousers and black jack boots.

IIRC French soldiers referred to the Germans as "stringbeans."

And the Soviets called them "Green Lice". ;o)

…when they weren't calling them 'snowdrops'.