"Citadel washes are they history or renamed?" Topic

Citadel washes have become an integral part of my painting process. They are no longer available, as far as I know. So I will need to find an alternative. Does any of the new gw products work the same or is there an alternative on the market with similar results?

Is Nuln Oil a black wash or something different entirely?

I thinkk they have been "rebranded" as "shades."

Drakenhof Nightshade = Asurmen Blue Wash
Carroburg Crimson = Baal Red Wash
Nuln Oil = Badab Black Wash
Agrax Earthshade = Devlan Mud Wash
Seraphim Sepia = Gryphonne Sepia Wash
Druchii Violet = Leviathan Purple Wash
Reikland Fleshshade = Ogryn Flesh Wash
Biel-Tan Green = Thraka Green Wash
link

just be aware it's a different manufacturer, and they are close, but they are different…

So GW hired a new company to make this stuff?

Margard thanks for the list. Makes me relax a little.

The prior washes and the new washes behave differently, unfortunately. Unless one of the various DIY recipes out there can replicate the handling characteristics of Devlan Mud, the days of "talent in a bottle" are gone.

There is a slight difference in the behavior of the new washes from the old, but it's to the better, IMO. It seems to flow into the depressions more and stain the other areas less than before.

I'm going to experiment with other peoples stuff so I can stop giving these 'people' my hard earned…

Agrax Earthshade is no Devlan Mud, unfortunately…

Iannick
clashofempires.ca

Agrax Earthshade is no Devlan Mud, unfortunately…

In what way?

I have found that the "new" washes also behave differently than the "old" washes, particularly the black and the brown. The formula behind Devlan Mud had enough balance between pigment and transparency that I found it easy to use over many different colors. I do not have that ease of use with the Agrax. I have also found the need to thin Nuln Oil further when I am using it. I never had to thin the former black wash. I also found the old Sepia wash great over a number of skin tones -- not so much with the new one.

I agree…

I've also found myself picking up devlan mud pots whenever I can, including ebay!

Here is one alternative review:

link

Army Painters quick shades are reportedly the same as the GW washesbut lack the range.

I looked for a lot of time for the right WASH trying:

- OLD STYLE diluited colors of several brands (Black, Browns and mixes)
- Vallejo smoke
- Vallejo washes (ALL)
- different DiY combinations.

With nothing that I like, I stored 80 miniatures finished waiting for the good solution/recipe.
Since I never liked GW and I always loved Vallejo for several reasons I never tried DEVLAN MUD until strongly advised by a friend.

Once I tried I FELL IN LOVE with it and I finished a pot so I tried to buy new one and I was obliged to try AGRAX.

They are not the same color but also they behave and flow differently over miniatures (basic feature for a wash).

RESULTS:
I rake up 10 bottles of Devlan Mud on EBAY and I keep them safely stored like a Dom Perignon 1962 bottle.

The best comparable product that I tried in my opinion is ARMY PAINTER STRONG TONE INK

I second Nick's suggestion. I was told that the Army Painter Strong Tone Ink was closest to Devlan Mud. Having tried three suggestions, that is the one I found to be closest.

But it is true. While Agrax may have the same colour, it doesn't work anything even close to the beloved Devlan. Not even watered down does it work remotely close. It will produce a wildly different result every time no matter what. It's not a wash afterall, it's a "Shade."

It's painfully clear that while washes can be used to shade, the new GW "Shades" cannot be used like the old washes. They don't get into the recesses, they stick to everything and leave it sticky in preparation for applying the next colour layer up. They're meant as the medium between a base and a layer or two layer paints. They literally designed their paint range to work a particular way and while I like that, it's also a detriment in some ways.

On the upside, GW was thoughtful enough to provide Lahmian medium. Which is some sort of thinner that lets you make your own washes. It's proven a little handy so far, but I'm not sure I personally have much use for it. Others might.

…..the new GW "Shades" cannot be used like the old washes. They don't get into the recesses, they stick to everything …..

There is a slight difference in the behavior of the new washes from the old, but it's to the better, IMO. It seems to flow into the depressions more and stain the other areas less than before.

??

The "old" GW washes and foundation paints were manufactured by …. wait for it…. Vallejo for GW. The new line is manufactured by someone else and the name escapes me at the moment. The issues with the new GW line is that many of the colors don't match exactly but will blend. Which is really bad if you are halfway through a large army.

I understand what GW was trying to do when it changed the line so significantly. The way a lot of folks paint today has evolved out of the worlds of art and competition painting. A lot of us use artist mediums and the like to thin or alter paints. A lot of folks use plain old Future, polyurethane, etc. The old line was not all that accepting of other mediums. In addition, a lot of folks were going outside of the line for colors that GW didn't have. GW was losing paint sales and they redid the line to stop the leak so to speak. GW is attempting to make it easier for folks to incorporate different techniques without having to move outside of the GW line.

I have played around with most of the "technical" paints -- texture, glaze, shade and dry. I can say that I will continue to use my current lines (Vallejo Model Color, Game Color, P3, some Reaper and some artist guache), along with the associated mediums. My reaction has really been rather lukewarm.

After reading through this thread I'm really glad I took the decision to switch to Coat d'Arms paints a while ago. In case anyone doesn't realise, they are the original Citadel paints…

@ War store sweetie
Interesting that you say

The way a lot of folks paint today has evolved out of the worlds of art and competition painting.

I follow a lot of what the master painter folk do and I would say over half of the ones that I have watched and followed use GW paints and some of the best don't use much in the way of additives other than water or flow medium. I dont dispute what you are saying as you may have noticed a shift in the general painting populace preferences that I would never see.

Jen H probably uses more than any other I have seen but that may have something to do with her use of Reaper MS paints and connections therein, come to think of it Laszlo (?) was big on additives.

Anywho moving on, the use of flow enhancer will help your washes seek the low points on the model and leave little colour glazing of the raised surfaces, remember to test first.

regards
dave

@Dave -- My statements are based on what I'm seeing offered as classes at Gencon, Origins, etc. It's also based on the flood of "how to" DVD's, YouTube tutorials and the like that are floating around out there. You can still find good instruction on the Dallimore style. I recently saw a good piece entered into a competition that was NOT a Napoleonic unit.

I know Laszlo was one of the first to add mediums, Jen does it a lot and so does Tom Schaedle. However, if you are going to use fine art paint, which is really heavy bodied, on figures, you have to use the art mediums and additives to get it to a good consistency for figures -- since mini's are not paint canvas.

The other trend that I am seeing is heavy use of colored primer. Many folks are using that, picking out the details with a round or 2 of drybrushing, and edging, etc., and then using a dip or wash to complete the figure. Lots of folks are doing this for "grunt" units in many of the 40k armies.

Personally prefer washes as they did what you wanted. Though for paints Wargames Foundry are very hard to beat, similar to Coats, though they cover the old citadel range, but come in a clever triate system. Kev Dallimore designed em.

Vallejo washes are good, just takes a little tinkering, and a make your own colour with mixing in a separate bottle.