"German Revolution/Civil War" Topic

Hi,
I'm determined to game this period with freikorp, marines, communists, tanks, armored vehicles and all that stuff in 15mm . I'm also pretty sure to use PBI (which I own) as base for it. But I'm not sure if I should converte PBI directly or to mod the SCW rules based on PBI, what do you think ?

Greetings
WCTFreak

I think PBI is probably a good base, and I'm afraid I don't know the SCW mods (though they are probably quite applicable); but FYI the new edition of 'Square Bashing' has army lists for Freikorps and Spartacists.

A fine idea. I wanted to game this but never did. So are you planning on historical political events? Its rather one sided after the Kaiser abdicates and the SPD decides to betray their left-wing and secretly arm the Freikorps.

I have these in 15mm, mostly Peter Pig. Haven't gamed it but would probably use AK-47 variant…

Funny, but I was just doing some visual research on this subject recently! Any idea what manufacturer's figures you'll be using, WCTFreak?

In the meantime, I'll display some of the posters and images that I've found as inspiration for your endeavor:

Good luck, WCTFreak!

Saginaw

Love the mixed figure scale in the penultimate photo.

Looks like 15, 20 and 28mm!

Peter Pig have many figures in thier 15mm WW1 range. If you aren't too picky, you can use some of the more casually dressed SCW figures as well as the French resistance from the WW2 range. My Spartakists are a mix of WW1 Red Guard, French resistance and some of the Spanish Civil War figures. You can throw in some Sailors as well (most sailors have pretty similar uniform from the period, as I recall). The Freikorps are Germans in light kit and Russians in German helmet. Most Freikorps don't carry a lot of gear. For vehicles: the Austin Putilov from Peter Pig and the Garford Putilov from PT Dockyard are suitable models. There is a pretty good coffee table book on German uniforms during the Civil War period (by Wooley?). Many photos of Freikorps and a few of Spartakists, if memory serves right.

I started some work on an AK47 conversion for the Weimar era a long time ago and even posted some flowcharts on the RFCM yahoo group.

Might be worth a look if you want an alternative to PBI?

Awesome stuff Saginaw.

boggler

I hadn't considered AK47; that's an excellent idea. I imagine the main rule changes would be in restricting the weapon types available?

There is an Erhardt Armoured Car available from QRF now, to add to the comprehensive list from Prince Albert.

Saginaw, Love the mixed figure scale in the penultimate photo.

Awesome stuff Saginaw.

My pleasure, gentlemen. By the way, don't forget that Osprey offers their Elite publication on the Freikorps:

link

Yep,

Otehrwise it's a simple matter of writing up some new flowcharts, terrain set up rules and victory conditions.

The weaponry is pretty easy to handle, although some new rules might be neededd for things like armoured trains, barricades etc etc.

The RCW and SCW variants have lots of good stuff in them that could be used too.

The flowcharts that I devised were for Spartakists and for the Freikorps, but I planned to do some for Interventionists (French, British etc), Nationalists (Latvians, Hungarians etc) and the Government.

…another one of those abandoned projects!

I am in midst of doing this as well only in 20mm.
Trying to find the right balance between Friekorps and Reds so that you have a
good game.

What are you guys doing for terrain?

Building an Early 20th Century German downtown in 15mm or 20mm could get really expensive or time consuming.

That is what gave me pause for some time on doing this.
Most of the fighting was urban. A friend of mine had the idea of using the boardgame Junta as a starting point. Basically get a good sheet and draw/paint on various terrain features and building and then use really building for the main objective points. We going to see how this works.

Doesn't have to be, as industrial terrain can be fairly open and even urban areas have parks, squares, open spaces, suburbs, docklands etc.

…and quite a lot of scenarios could be set in farmland, marshland, forest and other open spaces, especially if you include the Baltic region in your plans.

The flowcharts are here:

link

..you need to join the RFCM yahoo group, which is a bit of a bonus really.

I ended up thinking that the best solution was paper buildings. However, instead of individual buildings perhaps groups of buildings as one piece. This would make it easier and less expensive to create whole blocks of the regular apartment and office buildings. Trouble is I don't know of anyone who makes appropriate paper models.

If they did I'd have a few nice building models for the key objectives: government and newspaper offices, barracks, police stations, telephone exchange, armories, etc. The game would be fought on the objectives and across numerous barricades in the streets. The paper blocks would just be 'for show'.

Doesn't anyone make German buildings in 15mm? With all the WWII gaming out there I would thinking someone would make them. I'll go and troll RPGNow and see what they have.

Doesn't have to be, as industrial terrain can be fairly open and even urban areas have parks, squares, open spaces, suburbs, docklands etc.

…and quite a lot of scenarios could be set in farmland, marshland, forest and other open spaces, especially if you include the Baltic region in your plans.

With respect it does have to be urban. They were squabbling over the centres of political power. There was little to no point capturing suburbs or industrial parts.

In Germany at least, the historical fighting was small forces in inner cities.

In the Baltics the entire nature changes, but the enemies change too. The original poster seems to want to fight Spartacists. I fight the Baltic campaign, as it happens.

wrt rules, it depends how serious you want your games to be.

WW1/RCW/GCW version of AK47 work very well, with or without flow charts.

Strangely, it also works well as a system for urban combat (I've done the battle for Arnhem bridge using a WW2 version for AK47).

If you want to go down the PBI route, then I'd look at the SCW variants (BAIT2??). Post WW1 revolutionary warfare between irregular forces bore only a very slight resemblance to WW2 infantry combat.

And there is the new "A World AFlame" Osprey set

"Doesn't anyone make German buildings in 15mm"

they do but the problem I find is that the buildings are made for WWII and thus are blown up to some degree. Not quite sure why every bulding was destroyed everywhere in Europe but they seemed to have been.

Thanks Guys, there is a lot good HO Scenery for german towns/industrial buidlings out there. I will manly use PP with some QRF. I just played a game PBI and found it quite nice… is there any BAIT preview review aviable on the inet ?

Try railroad people. Their stuff is not ruined.

You could try making frontages of a few building, then shallow casting them as a set. That could build up whole streets quite quickly.

Not quite sure why every bulding was destroyed everywhere in Europe but they seemed to have been.

I guess most of the fighting in Germany in WWII was in 1945, by which time many/most Germany cities were pretty well destroyed by allied bombing. Plus the Russians were very "generous" in how they used arty. I guess most gamers want blasted buildings for Germany.

I wouldn't mind have a few to build a few villages with. I don't think that I would ever do any major city fights though. They are just too expensive when it comes to terrain. I would rather have toys over terrain.

I see that some TMPers are saying that there's a lot of useful stuff in railroad kits. Could anyone post some links? I'm not into the railroad scene so I have no idea where to go looking for something so specific.

Tgunner try Pola and Faller, link

Also Schreiber-Bogen for card models link

Also, try this guys stuff on Ebay: auction

I prefer ruined buildings normally because they have more character than city blocks and are easier to place troops in.

Cheers
Mark

Thanks Dropship!

Does anyone have any information about how they got their hands on this tank?

I'm fairly certain that the Germans were required to turn over all tanks after the end of the war. Obviously they didn't, which makes me curious about how they hid them…?

Two positively identified female MKIVs – Nos '153' (Hanni) and '155' (Fee) had previously been captured and served in 12. Sturm-Panzerkraftwagen Abteilungen during WW1.

These plus another probable MKIV, and '53' a Whippet, became part of Tank-Abeteilung Körting formed in December 1918, later called the Kommand der Kampfwagenabteilungen (also known as Kokampf). Stationed at Kraftfahrer-Kaserne in Berlin-Lankwitz and operating in the Berlin area.

Their high profile actions in Berlin and Leipzig led to them being scrapped in July 1919, following demands by the Interallied Control Commission.

The Whippet had been brought to Berlin from Charleroi to do tank demonstrations for Army Group Crownprince Rupprecht.

Does that help?

Mark

Yes, thanks!