"Dutch "regiment" in Spain, IV Corps" Topic

I cannot find anything in searching the TMP files about Dutch Napoleonics, but have some questions. I recall that several of you have done the "German Division" of the IV Corps, and wonder what figures you used for the Dutch.

The 1st Battalion, 2nd Dutch; and the 2nd Battalion, 4th Dutch served together in Spain as a provisionl regiment, along with a company of Dutch sapeurs/engineers/whatever; and a battery of Dutch horse artillery. A Dutch hussar regiment also was in spain, occasionally with this unit.

(1) Does anyone know of 28mm, specifically "Dutch" infantry figures on the market? They wore a shako somewhat lower and narrower at the top than the 1808 style french shako. They had a metal number on the front of the shako, work pompom on the left side, held by a white cord running down the side to a button. Not use if they ever wore shako cords. This is a very specific shako, a problem to convert. It may be much like the Swiss also wore in Spain at the beginning. The Dutch grenadier companies also work a very unusual bearskin, with fur showing below the plate; rather upright and flat. Not sure of the back. This is why I am looking for purpose-made Dutch infantry. (Other Dutch units served in this uniform also in 1809 in pursuit of Von Schill, cornering him in Stralsund(?))

(2) Does anyone know how the Dutch battalions were organized? Back in the 1960's, I did some research into Lienhart & Humbert's writings in the foreign units book, and seem to remember 8 company battalions – 1 grenadier; 6 fusilier; 1 flanker or "voltigeur."

(3) Dutch horse artillery can be done with French in hussar kit, but with the unique head switch. Where to get the heads?

(4) The Dutch Hussars had a cloth shabraque, pointed at the rear, much like office shabraques, and seem to have worn the French shako. Not a problem, as I see it.

Does anyone know of a source? Or even more information about these troops?

GdeP

I used 'Firing Line' Miniatures from the UK. They offer different heads, including a side pom-pom. Both battalions were uniformed alike, except for facings. I'm in Iraq right now, so I can't reach out to my bookshelf to tell you which battalion wore with facing color. I have mine in 6 companies, not 8. Gren/Volt/4xLine. Grenadiers in bearskins.

The Firing Line miniatures blend well with most 28MM figures. Of course, they are in separate battalions, but on the table, I see nothing to disappoint me.

I can't offer any info on the artillery or Hussars.

I used Calpe Saxons in campaign dress:
link

Their uniform is close to that worn by the Dutch. I moved the shako pompom to the side and since the shakos are covered, I didn't have to paint on the numbers.

Close enough for me.

Thanks to you both! Best of luck to you in Iraq, Paul!

I will look into the Firing line figures. I might even consider doing both battalions, for the unit in Spain in 1808 shows 48 officers, 1,069 men. A little small. One of Firing Line, the other Calpe.

I, too, am not too concerned with deadly accuracy! I do enjoy converting, but my stuff is pretty primitive.

(I can't believe my typing above! Work pompom… for Wore. Not use… for not sure. work… again for wore about the grenadiers. Others are missing letters, so the meaning is not destroyed. Don't get old, guys! I don't intend to until I reach 99 yrs, 11 months and 28 days!)

GdeP

if I remember properly I believe the dutch troops were incorporated into the french army so they should pretty much be set up the same in any given year

I have a regt. of Chasseurs. A Cheval in firing line figs. They are nice figures and easy to paint.
I believe they were incorporated and changed to the French model in 1809.

I have, packed away, a Rigo plate of a color bearer of a Dutch regiment, showing the unit as it was incorporated into the French armyk, I think about 1810. They wore their original uniforms at the formation of the units in the 120 numbering sequence as I recall.
I must look at the chasseurs a cheval. I do not rememher ever seeing any in the Dutch service!

By the way, here is a Dutch plate as illustrated by Knoetel. I Believe there are two plates in sequence. Fusiliers shown with short sword and bayonet. Makes it hard to use French fusiliers if that is the case.

link

GdeP

if I remember properly I believe the dutch troops were incorporated into the french army so they should pretty much be set up the same in any given year

Only from 1810.

Druzhina
Netherlands Infantry Uniforms

hmm,,the Hussar regiment became the french 11th or 12 th Hussars in 1810…want to say the 11th.I am about to move to a new state and my referance books are all packed away.
Osprey used to have a book on the kingdom of holland ,but I think it is way out of print…shame ,I would get one myself.
One battalion had (I Think) yellow faceings and the other was pink ,and I want to say the horse artillery was in dark blue much like the french but with side plums.
I still have not added my dutch regiment to my german division,but I had plained on useing Perry hard plastic french infantry ..takeing all the troops in great coats and doing some conversion work ( move the pom pom and head swap for Victrix grenadier heads,add tall plums for the volitgers ..simple stuff..still have not worked out the command figs just yet.

Runicus

The Dutch were organised in the French manner on their road to Spain. It was Napoleon himself who ordered (and organised in person) on the 21st of september 1808, at a revue at St Denis that the 9 company structure had to change to the 6 company structure.
This was reported in various letters bij dutch officers who were present.

Look at the site of the "Legermuseum" Delft
link

goto "collections"
-> search in collection"
-> only keep "beeldmateriaal en objecten"= pictures and objects
-> search (zoekterm) fill in 1809 or 1806 etc.
you find pictures

or go to link

Great information! I just have to experiment with "mining" that site!

As I recall, the hussars in sky blue and the Guard hussar became the 2nd Lancers of the Guard (Ex-Hollondaise). The dark blue hussars, which were not in Spain, became the 11th Hussars (Ex-Hollondaise). In my opinion, this was the handsomest hussar regiment is French service, elites with white colpaks; barrel sash of scarlet with white panels, down the center of which ran a dark blue line. Also, red lining to the pelisse, where other units had white; and white fur edging on trooper pelisse. I recall omewhere in TMP they were accused of being a bad regiment. I once painted 4 elites in flats, and mounted them in a picture frame for the wall.

I would like, eventually, to do 36 figures of the 2nd Dutch (sky blue as shown for officer in Knoetel) or 4th Dutch (rose as shown for Drummer in Knoetel), in uniform as shown above: short leggings, pointed front and back with no trim. White breeches, coat with short lapels, with vest showing, and turnbacks starting just below the center of the lapels.

I wonder is one Spanish figures might convert, as I believe such lapels were characteristic of Spanish troops at some point in this era. The shako with side plume might be used from perhaps French light infantry in the line bicorn era?

GdeP

Thank you, Druzhina! My apologies! I forgot to mention that all should look into your site! At the very end, one can access links to many Napoleonic era illustrations, and I find a Spanish light unit that could have promise of converting the Dutch in Spain:

link

Now, does anyone make such figures? I can see doing one Spanish light unit; and converting 24 to Dutch. 12 might convert to elites with epoxy epaulettes, tall plume for voltigeurs, "green stuff" for grenadier bearskin.

GdeP

Forgot to mention, the regiment in the Netherlands themselves kept of course the original organisation up to middel 1810 when the Kingdom was incorporated in to France

Possible of help:
link

Thank you, Duc de Limbourg! Very informative site! Great picture of the two hussar troopers from the 2nd and 3rd, together.

I recall that Rousselot shows a trooper in scarlet, wearing the long-tailed chasseur a cheval coat. Imaginations unit in Spain! as they did not serve there.

I note on one of the pages a Dutch grenadier in a very French- looking coat – long tailed, and cut-away. The bearskin does not clearly show fur below the plate, but is quite upright.

link

GdeP

GdeP
Although this seems a strange uniform for the Dutch line as normally the "closed to the waist" coat is shown, there is also a plate by Suhr with shows the 9th Dutch infantry in the open coat.
Probably the first white coats were cut according to the older Batavian model but not in blue but in white with (for the 2nd regimetn) with facings in light blue.

For Suhr plate of dutch troops see
link

I'd take a look at which of the recent plastic 28mm ranges were closest to the Dutch 1806-1810 uniforms and convert from those. A fairly moderate conversion. That's what I'm planning to do for mine.

I'm also planning the same thing for 1801-1807 Danes! A rather more ambitious conversion!