"French Combined Grenadiers" Topic

Hello,
Just chasing information on when and were the French used combined Grenadier unit? As I am planning to build one for my French army. Any web page links or Books to look at would be great.

Thanks

Have a look at this.

link

They also used combined grenadier battalions in the early battles of the Peninsular war. Don't have any books or links at hand right now.

Fons
MMPS

What period are you looking at? I understand that they went out of favour as the Napoleonic period progressed…

rabbit

Mainly the peninsular as that's we're my army is focused. But also 1809.

Thanks for the help

I understand that they went out of favour as the Napoleonic period progressed…

Any theories why this was the case? Were grenadiers perhaps needed in their parent regiments as veterans were replaced by conscripts?

I think the growth of the Young Guard tended to replace the need to create combined elite battalions, which had tended to be formed from either field or depot/garrison battalions. However, in Spain and Italy, in the absence of the Guard, they tended to still need the elite line formations.

npm

Also, a lot of COs complained about losing their 'best' soldiers to units which had a mixed effectiveness.

It was a practice that continued, albeit not as often, through the wars and such an organization decisions remained in the hands of the CinC. Some of the battles where you see them are:

Austerlitz
Jena
Vimeiro
Talavera
Albuera

I can provide more battles if you want. One thing that isn't normally recognized by writers is that most combined grenadiers were actually 'elite battalions' which included the Carabiniers from the Legere battalions along with the grenadiers. This is the case for all the above battles.

Bill H.

I would guess that a contributory factor to combined grenadier battalions going out of fashion was the switch from 9 companies per battalion to 6 companies per battalion in 1808.

A battalion of 9 companies, without it's grenadiers can operate very effectively as 8, including forming columns of division and columns of attack, both on a double company frontage.

A battalion of 6 companies needed all 6 present to form columns of division or columns of attack on a 2 company frontage, so detaching their grenadier companies would mean that they could only form columns on a single company frontage.

Columns needed a minimum of three complete rows of sub-units (whether companies or divisions) in order to form square, hence the restriction on deployment in Napoleon's 1808 instruction requiring battalions to form on a single company frontage if either or both of the elite companies was detached.

Rod

I checked my OOBs and their was a French converged Grenadier unit at the Battle of Albuera in the Peninsular

A lot of the French Peninsular units retained the old 9 company organisation for a year or two after 1808. However the two converged grenadier battalions at Albuera were not formed from the other battalions present at that battle, but were withdrawn from other units used as garrison troops in Andalucia, including two Polish Regiments.

I do have a couple of conflicting lists of exactly which converged grenadier companies were at Albuera, one from Oman and one from one of the books on Albuera itself, but both show companies from battalions employed in a garrison role.

Rod

Were the combined grenadier units done at the corps level,as the Marshals may have wanted to create their own "guard" that they could use on the battlefield? Or were they some bastard ad hoc creation?

I don't believe the intent was to create personal guard formations for the Marshals.

The Young Guard were expected to undertake an active combat role on the field of battle, as was the Middle Guard. The same can be said for the combined Grenadier, or voltigeur, battalions that were formed in the Peninsular or Italian theaters. They were elite, but they were not ceremonial. They were expected to fight and take losses in combat. Combined voltigeur battalions might be formed in any theater in the absence of light infantry regiments. Whilst grenadier battalions might be formed to create a tactical reserve to be used to break the resolve of an enemy that had been previously disrupted by line formations.

npm