"Miyazaki World?" Topic

In discussing the construction of a game setting based on Hiyao Miyazaki's works, I emailed a few ideas to a buddy of mine. I'm copying that email here rather than rewriting everything.

So, I've been thinking on this some more and this could be fun. It may require some serious conversion work but if we played it story/camapign style it'd be worth it.

One of Miyazaki's primary themes is nature versus progress and various thematic variations on that. War factors into many of of his non-coming of age tales. I know i'm preaching to the quoir here, so bear with me.

We create a world with a few smaller kingdoms, a larger "alpha" kingdom. We then create a crisis that puts the alpha kingdom on the warpath. If we decide to use the Quar, they could be one of the minor kingdoms or perhaps a second, larger kingdom, but maybe normally outside of the main politics between human kingdoms.

There is even room for more rustic forces in this too. Perhaps a more naturalistic kingdom, in tune with the natural spirits of the world falls under the baleful, hungry gaze of the alpha kingdom. Tanks and armored riflemen vs archers riding stags and nature spirits?

Thoughts?

-Eli

I think there is more to this than simply nature vs progress. I think what Miyazaki often says in his stories is more direct: that humanity needs to live within the limits of nature, to live in harmony rather than exploitatively. It is strongly implied in his Nausicaa story (specifically in the graphic novels rather than the movie) that the Sea of Corruption was created to cleanse the Earth, and those that do not live in harmony with it's mission suffer (there are references that in the Torumekian and Dorok kingdoms, the population is falling year to year…such that the eventual conflict between these states was over population rather than other factors). So I don't think thematically his goal is "anti-techonlogy" or "anti-progress" in so much as these developments as he sees them do not live in harmony with the natural world.

So for a theme, the "alpha kingdom" could be technologically progressive, industrial, and well organized, but heavily polluted and rotten at the core. Magnificent neo-ROmanesque architecture next to smoke-belching smokestacks. Gas masks and all of the other imagery of a post-industrial nightmare dystopia.

Meanwhile the "heroes" of the story are a small, sparsely populated kingdom of simple farmers and traders/craftsman, who use their technology in a way that is harmonious with nature. A crisis erupts and the "Alpha kingdom" invades, with some sort of trumped up pretext, but the real reasons are more pathetic (perhaps they invade because this lesser kingdom is one of the last sources of clean water?)

Those are my thoughts on the subject…

Damon.

Nausicaa is one of my favorites, I'v actually been toying with the armor and clothing styles for a wargame/miniatures sculpting angle.

@Garand – Damon, you are absolutely correct that the themes go deeper.

What I want to develop is a wargaming setting more so than an RPG setting. Miyazaki's themes are definitely easier to explore in the context of an RPG, but so much of his style really flares in his treatment of warfare and war machines.

I'm likely going to work from conversions of existing figures and vehicles to speed things along. Head swaps and a little kitbashing can go far.

I think the use of zombiesmith's quirky Quar figures would be great for this project and can very much envision them as the pastoral nation forced to adapt to war in the face of the juggernaut of the "alpha kingdom".

Splintered Light's elk riding wood elves might adapt nicely as cavalry forces for a REALLy natural kingdom. Odd some goggles to their hats and a they can become the hapless tree-hugger relying on giant beasts and spirits to defend them.

The Alpha Kingdom and its neighbors could easily be achieved through the use of head swaps between different periods or even the use of Peter Pig's separate heads. A little green stuff can also help.

For example, take a Napoleonic trooper in a long coat, throw a medieval helmet on him and some green stuff shoulder plates and you have a pretty cool Miyazaki style soldier.

-Eli

There are all sorts of interesting directions one could take it, but I think the right track is definitely along the lines of a dominate culture that is exploitative of nature, versus one or more cultures that live in closer alignment with it.

Another set up might two major kingdoms that have just gone to war, both a heavily industrialized, and they are dragging the smaller kingdoms into the conflict as well.

In any event, a lot of potential story fodder in the Miyazaki vision.

-Will

There are those figures that Black Crab did as well…can't recall the name…. "Song of Steel?"

This is the sort of project that really invites story-style play where the players are not so much "married" to one faction or another, but play out key points in a narrative.

This would also give each player a chance to contribute ideas to the factions as well as a chance to play each of them.

-Eli

Just wish he would do the second Porco Rosso set during the Spanish civil war. I would love to see those planes in action.

I would like to attempt to raise the capitol to start sculpting a Miyazaki inspired miniature line. It's currently in the cards. My intent is to get my character art done for the first 10 figures, sculpt the first 2, then run a kickstarter to produce the rest.

Glenn, what scale are you planning on going with?

-Eli

Nausicaa in 15mm, I would buy kilograms of the stuff.

The other stories, I like Mononoke a lot as well as Porco Rosco, but the rest I can happily pass on. I'd only want to game Nausicaa. Dorok infantry, Periphery troops, Touremekian Guards…

For me they can all be mixed into a nice little world…

-Eli

The out of print Miyazaki sketchbook would be a great resource for any such project.

The Tasca Miyazaki tank is an awesome kit, too. It comes with some piggy crewmen and is 1/72 scale.

Nausicaa in 15mm, I would buy kilograms of the stuff.

The other stories, I like Mononoke a lot as well as Porco Rosco, but the rest I can happily pass on. I'd only want to game Nausicaa. Dorok infantry, Periphery troops, Touremekian Guards…

Don't forget gunships! And Torumekian Corvettes…

I'd love to see a Nausicaa inspired minis line. I'd prefer 28mm, but 15mm would be awesome too. First unit I'd form: Torumekian Horseclaw Cavalry…

Damon.

Dammit, never could spell that damn nation correctly…

Yupa in any scale, with both swords out, would be freakishly cool.

But no Forrest People please, damn insect loving hippies!

I felt that 28mm scale would be required. While 15mm is the growing scale, I think that 28's would provide the necessary detail. My biggest issue is I do not have the capitol necessary to launch a a figure line at this point.
I was leaning towards a first release containing the following.

Nausicaa
Yupa
Ashitaka
San
Pazu and Sheeta (together with the intent of single basing them)
Arrun
Shuwa

To be fair, I doubt I would make replica's of any character, they would be heavily inspired, but not duplicates.

If you have suggestions, I'd happily take them. Right now I am just considering and trying to figure out what my total costs and such will be. If I can get it sorted and Kickstart it that we could be good to go.

Glenn, you and I are thinking on different levels here. I am thinking battles and you seem more to be thinking adventures.

Both are viable and 28mm adventure style figs certainly would showcase the style of individual characters better. 15mm would be great for showing off the majesty of Miyazaki's brand of warmachine, troops, etc..

-Eli

It does seem we are on a bit of a different page, and it boils down to how hard it is to satisfy everybody. I was planning character driven skirmish game mentality with a heroic characters and some support.

While I am not opposed to the premise of more mass battle style game, that is a bit away from where my interests normally lie.

I suppose it would fall to what is most appealing to the majority. 15mm can do both styles of game play, but at the same time is harder to sculpt key characters. While it is going well for having finer characters done, I feel the style is still a bit lost.

Definitely looking for different things.

I would want a game where clunk, multi-turreted tanks clash with ranks of lavishly uniformed soldiers. A game where you might easily have an entire fortress wall defending itself against an onslaught of spirits or giant insects or whatever.

The state of the art in 15mm has come a long way and you can actually cram a lot of detail into a 15mm fig.

-Eli

The Valley gunship is available as a 1/100 kit.

I have it :D

How do folks envision handling the odd mixture of armored warriors and guns in Miyazaki stuff?

Do you just hand wave it as cool or do you try to come up with some sort of explination that makes it work?

I've considered using the old "impervium" angle where such armor is made of a metal that is not common enough for building vehicles out of or using for bullets?

-Eli

Miyazaki used the thoughts of a lot of Ceramics or other more unusual styles. Perhaps the metal is soft and doesn't do well against ceramic armor. Nausicaa had reference that a ceramic sword was as strong as steel. So Ceramic plate armor that becomes brittle in sizes over say 4 square feet. Crap for tanks, great for people and swords. It doesn't do well when firing from guns as the extra heat damages it.

An interesting take and completely doable. Even in a setting where the technology had never reached the levels it had in pre-fall Nausicca you can rationalize the discovery of super strong ceramics.

-Eli

The intro the Nausicca comic actually says the 'modern era' is sort of a 'Ceramics Age' in that very strong ceramics have replaced metal for a lot of purposes due to shortages. So the idea that ceramic armor that is castable in human-sized armor but not for vehicles would fit in very well.

-Will

Looking at Privateer Press's work and concept art like the pics below, it seems pretty obvious they have been influenced, to some degree, by Miyazaki's work as well as other anime themes –

Battle Totoro…..

The problem I have with the idea is that in Naussica, Laputa and Mononoke, the "Imperial" forces are noticeably under-strength. The Imperials we do see are all small units on a secret mission to get a secret something.

We never really see the big battalions in any of the movies. If we did, the plucky local opposition would be wiped out in short order. For this reason alone, I don't think the films translate well into a war game but are well suited to an RPG.

Oddly enough, every time I start a discussion about creating a setting based on the themese and style of Miyazaki's work folks tend to focus on how to bring specific movies to life as a game.

Michael's comments above are very soun and one of the reasons I have no real interest in trying to effect a direct translation of his works into a game. But the concepts, themese, and style of Miyazaki's works can definitely be tweaked and scaled to make for a true wargame.

Sure, the Imperial forces are never shown in force, though is Naussica they do make a pretty good showing. But, there is always the implication of a greater empire that could release its full might on the world. Any game setting that drew from this source material could be written with any number of pretexts and explinations for open warfare or large scale operations.

This sort of premise is true in many settings where there is a larger Empire at hand. Think Star Wars, for a moment. As powerful as they make the Galactic Empire out to be, is there any reason they couldn't have oblitorated any opposition in open warfare and outside of the concessions of a pulp style plot? It's only for the sake of the story at hand that this larger picture is never really examined.

But any forces put against such an empire can also be given their own advantages that equalize the might of the empire. Perhaps the empire is fighting on many fronts. Maybe the empire is a nation of technology and industry and bound by logitstics making any long-range objectives difficult and slow to accomplish. Maybe the empire, despite all its technology finds itself ill-equipped when fighting nature spirits or whatever?

You can make it work.

-Eli

I do agree with Eli that there is a major thematic link in Miyazaki's science fiction or fantasy works, and getting those themes 'right', plus some of the look & feel, is more viable and really more satisfying than copying any of the movies or stories exactly.

-Will

As much as I would love to see a full-blown game come out of this, such a thing is so far beyond my means. If anything, it'll be a labor of love using conversions.

Let's talk about possible troops!

IMPERIAL FORCES
I like thei dea of these guys having lots of uniformed, disposable troops with a few elites. their basic troops could be some sorto f long-coated troops, perhaps with a breastplace. They would be armed with rifles and grenades and such. they would be backed by tanks and perhaps have some sort of aerial transport.

LESSER KINGDOMS
These smalelr human kingdoms would be variations on the Imperial theme. They might have equal or perhaps even greater tech, maybe a few tricks up their sleeves.

Other factions could be a NATURAL KINGDOM and perhaps a NON-HUMAN KINGDOM or two. Any one of the lesser kingdoms could also be one of these too.

An interesting way to go would be to have a single Non-human kingdom in the world and have them be the other major civilized power but perhaps on the opposite sideo f the world from the big Imperial force.

-Eli

15mm or 28mm scale?

For the less kingdoms rather than a strict divide between nature orientated or not one could have the kingdom near the major empire more industrialized and the ones further away less so. Maybe the lesser kingdoms are trying to forge some sort of alliance to resist the empire, and this culture divide is causing problems. Just more ideas along the same theme.

-Will

I'd be going 15mm, but could see doing some 28mm for some small skirmish games, assuming I could find the same figs to convert in both scales.

I hasd a similar thought of an alliance or perhaps a secondary kingdom large enough to hold its own for a while, trying to garner aid from other, most distant and not so involved nations.

"If you do not join us, not only shall we fall, but so shall you all!"

-Eli