"Lancer Miniatures 20mm Seven Years War: First Look" Topic

After seeing a news item for Lancers recently released SYW British infantry, I visited the website and was impressed enough to immediately order a full battalion of 24 castings for use with Crusader's "Rank and File" rules set.

This being one the last waning days of summer before preparing my classroom for my seventh grade munchkins, and having a pot of tea at hand, it seemed like a good time to give a tentative review of the purchase. Because I'm still learning to use my new camera, photos will need to wait until I can paint up the battalion and post some photos on my nascent blog. For those wanting a glimpse of Lancer Miniatures SYW line, photos can be found at this link:

lancerminiatures.com

Lancer Miniatures accept Paypal. Their cart and checkout system is smooth and without complications. The day after making the order, I was pleased to receive a confirmation that the order had been processed. The castings were in my mail box about ten days later. The order was very carefully packed in a sturdy box that fit easily into my very narrow mailbox. I didn't have to make a special trip to the post office to retrieve it.

Lancer offers unit packs of 24 infantry or twelve cavalry, both with command with a small discount in price. However, they also offer their line by the individual casting. its nice to be able choose the make-up of one's own units without worrying about extra figures or unwanted poses.

The castings themselves were very clean with excellent detail. The cuffs and pockets and uniform lapels were very accurate for the 1751 uniform. The anatomy is a little chubby, but that is something that I find endearing about these sculpts. I look much the same myself. They have a lot of character.

The officer for the British comes with his sword resting on his shoulder. The ensign figure is open handed and waiting for a brass wire flag staff. The rank and file are all in the same pose, which is acceptable for the linear tactics and disciplined troops of the era. Posing is sedate, without any overly energetic members to break up the serried ranks. This is a big plus for me. A sergeant with halberd is also available.

I don't yet have any French troops, but in viewing these on the website, it appears that there are currently more options for the army of Louis XVth. For example, French infantry may be bought with coat turnbacks or without. Figures with fatigue bonnets may be had. Officers may be purchased with either spontoon or sword. Both dragoons and line horse are also available.

These are a new line for Lancer. My impression is that all of the existing figures have been produced in 2012. The release dates show that new castings have been produced at a very steady clip, with plans to add British cavalry, French light troops, and 3 pdr battalion guns in the near future.

Kieven of Lancer Miniatures is an easy man with whom to communicate, and is warm and helpful in his words.

Some may ask, why 20mm? I've had large and beautiful 15mm SYW armies in the past from several prominent manufacturers. The 28mm lines on the market are wonderful also. Yet, somehow, 20mm is really attractive to me. As my eyes age, its a lot of work to paint in 15mm. My major era at this time is a set of Sengoku era Japanese armies. By the time I'm finished with that project, my eyes will be unable to paint fine detail in that scale any longer. The larger 28-30mm figures on the market are gorgeous, but a bit more than I want to spend, and require far more space than I can fit on my table.

Lancer's 20mm castings are reasonably priced, cleanly and beautifully sculpted, much easier on my eyes,, and a twenty-four man unit in two ranks fits my gaming space very well. Service is warm and efficient. Highly recommended.

@Wulfgar

A few questions, if you please:

1. What was the postage like to the US?

2. Any idea how these compare to other 20mm metal SYW ranges like Wodensfeld (from Vintage 20Mil) or Outland?

3. Any idea how they compare to the available 1/72 SYW plastics like Revell, Zvezda or HäT?

Thanks in advance!

Bill
Sir William the Aged
warsoflouisxiv.blogspot.com

Wulfgar – Many thanks for sharing your impressions! My own similar order was unfortunately mislaid by the post office, and although Kieven imediately offered to replace it, I've put off taking him up on it, as I'm still undecided between sizes. Your concerns of space and eye strain being largely my own as well, maybe I should take the plunge…

Sir William, on your item 3 – From previous correspondence with Kieven, his figures are deliberately styled to catch the "Front Rank type" in 20mm. As such they may not integrate too well with traditional 1/72 plastic figures – except perhaps for some portly colonels and generals?

Hi

Lancer miniatures are a true 20mm and are smaller than 1/72 plastics and the Wodensfeld figures.

Mark

Thanks for the insights on figure comparisons, Musketier and Ilkley. I'm not familiar with the manufacturers about which Sir William inquired. The only other 20mm castings I have on hand are some centuryTumbling Dice miniatures for the mid-thirteenth century. They are similar in height, but not in anatomical style. The comparison with Front Rank's anatomy is a good one.

I love your blog, Sir William!

Hi Guys
Just spotted this thread, and thankyou to Wulfgar for starting it and all the nice things you have said about my products.
I will be running out of ideas fairly soon as the range is growing so fast, as my own French army grows I keep adding wanted bits to it, and my opponent throws in ideas for his British/Hanovarian ie next he wants some basic troopers and some light infantry for the Hanovarian.
But after that I may need some ideas.
Ie what do you guys want and are you happy with the poses etc.
This did start off as a private project for me and some friends at my club, but it is selling rather well, and the more I sell the larger the range will grow, ie every penny made goes straight back into new figures (I have a real job this is my hobby). So any thoughts will be considered.
regards Kieven

Hi Kieven,
Thanks for asking about which things we'd like to see.

For France: Artillery and light troops. Perhaps Fischer's Corps?

Britain: Artillery and cavalry. My tastes are pretty basic.

Hanover: Infantry and some version of light infantry. Perhaps Luckner's Hussars.

If Hessians were offered at some distant point down the road, I'd be all over those. Espeicially jagers.

As for poses, I really prefer the marching poses which you are currently modeling. For me, its much easier to mount marching figures on 1" x 1" base. Other hobbyists may have different needs or ideas, of course.

As can be seen, my main interest is in the western theater. Best wishes with this line, Kieven. The items produced so far are outstanding. You're rekindled my interest in gaming the Seven Year's war.

Another option for French light troops might be the Volontaires de Clermont-Prince in their helmets?

Otherwise, assuming you'll be completing the French, British and Hanoverian ranges anyway I'll second the Hessian suggestion. For full coverage of the western theatre you may also wish to include Prussian dragoons (without lapels) and hussars.

…and then there's the matter of the Saxon infantry in French service. Conventional wisdom has it they wore Saxon-style uniform coats (various TMP threads on this), which followed the Prussian cut, again without lapels.

- So you see Kieven, plenty more to do before you even need to change theatres!

Thanks guys for the list, some of which can be ticked off. 3 French skirmishers arrived this morning as greens 1 firing 1 advancing 1 loading, they have long coat, once cast the originals go back to be convereted into turnback. Also the first of the Hanovarians enough to make up a unit. The skirmishers, I was thinking along the lines of Stockhausen Freikorps foot jager.
Any figures with funny hats can be added later no problem.
Now Hessian were not even on my list,so I am glad I asked, but there seems to be some dispute over shape of Prussian/Hessian hat ie is it still pointed like everyone else, or are we starting to see the AWI look, now if you agree its the AWI look then thats fine by me, as I would have figures for two periods (always a bonus).
Saxons are on the list, as one of my opponents wants to do a corp of them.So a couple of months and they should start arriving.
Now Hussars which I do love on the table, even though they are the first to run away. I am still not sure about the horse. Were they noticably smaller. If not I can use existing horses if smaller, they will have to wait, as horses are blooming expensive.

Kieven,
Loking forward to the French lights then! Once released, I 'd love to use them to model the Voluntaire du Dauphine. The Stockhausen Freikorps sound like worthy opponents for them! Frankly, it will be fun to make use of all of these.

As for the Hessian hat, my sources are also conflicting. I'd be fine with a proper tricorne,but tend to lean toward the Prussian cocked hat. It would make them more appealing to those who want to use them as Prussians, which is pretty inevitable.

My view of the hussar horse question is that technically, they were not so large as the big horses of the heavy cavalry. However, that being said, I'd be happy with, or even prefer the horses to be of the same size. Being overly pedantic can be a pain, and we're just playing with toy soldiers. I haven't noticed a difference in size with the horses of other manufacturers. I vote for using the same horses.

One other possibility for a SYW figure occurred to me when I woke up this morning. Castings for the highland regiments, such as the 42nd, might be nice.

I hope no one is bothered by my frequent responses on this thread. I'm just excited by your new SYW line, and looking forward to what Musketier or others might suggest.

All that's great news Kieven! Wulfgar has already covered most angles.

For his Volontaires du Dauphiné, you may want to include an alternative head with a furt-brimmed dragoon cap, as worn by the Dauphiné's mounted contingent before they switched to helmets, like the cavalry units of several other corps.

Other "funny hats" for French light troops include a fur cap worn by several grenadier companies (so perhaps best used on the advancing figure) and the Pokalem-style cap of Fischer's (as on your SYWF11). The hussar-style mirliton was worn by several corps during the 1740s, but had disappeared for foot troops by the Seven Years War I think.

I don't think Prussians or Hessians wore the "straightened" tricorne in the 1750s and 60s, although that's come to be the general expectation based on surviving items from the 1780s – see the current Black Hussars thread. That said, it's your range, so if you want the Hessians to do double duty for the AWI, I don't think it would significantly reduce your sales.

Hussar horses would indeed have been of a smaller, very different breed from that of the Hanoverian or Hessian horse and dragoons. Most manufacturers take a shortcut here, even in 15/18mm, as Wulfgar says – so it would be great if you could get it right!

Speaking of horses, a couple of generic draft horses might be an idea, accompanied by a chap in a single-breasted coat, heavy boots and tricorne. This would allow people top convert available plastic limbers and caissons, as well as baggage and pontoon wagons, from other periods. After all, 20mm is small enough to have at least some of the army's "tail" represented on the tabletop.

French light are now listed, and British cavalry command will be added during the week, Hanoverian drummer has been missed from the mould, and gone awol, so the provost are out looking for him. I will go with the smaller horse for hussars, it makes sense to get it right.Highlanders will be done, just glad I dont have to paint the tartan.
Still looking at Hessians, can someone tell me the difference between Prussian and Hessian uniforms.
cheers guys

Hi Kieven,
I checked out the French Lt. infantry and they look great! Since I've already ordered some cavalry for this month, I'll have to grab some this next month.

I suspect you and I have the same sources regarding the Hessians. My Funckens show them in Prussian style coat with tricornes, full lapels, and horizontal pockets on the tails. Grenadier caps as for the Prussians. I don't think the Hessians adopted the shorter fusilier cap until after the war ended, though I could be in error.

My single volume of Knotel drescribes the Hessians as dressed very like the Prussians, specifying the same style of hat.

My Pengal and Hurt illustrations show a Prussian cocked hat, but I'm not sure if this is accurate for the SYW.

I have posted the question about the hats to the 18th Century discussion board to see what the general wisdom says.

The hat discussion has helped make my mind up, so thanks Wulfgar for starting that. So I will start talking to my designer and getting some pictures together, chances are it will be Prussians that get done,not Hessians, but seeing as I can not see any difference in 20mm they will be listed as Prussian/Hessian, unless you guys know different.