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"Ladies riding sidesaddle: thanks, Minden!" Topic


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abdul666lw14 Aug 2012 10:15 p.m. PST

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*Great* news for all of such wishing for such miniatures for their skirmish games and / or for characters of their Imagi-Nation: the only ones available so far (the 'Willie' from the 'Hunt' set), 'Old school charm' notwithstanding, show the age (50 years) of their sculpting. And an in creased choice is always good!

Ideally the very same minis should be available on foot and mounted, as was generally done for the 'dungeon adventurers' of old.

John the OFM15 Aug 2012 7:51 a.m. PST

Cool!
I never knew that I needed something like this for my sedan chair racing game, but now I realize that I do.

FireStorm15 Aug 2012 10:18 a.m. PST

How does Minden compare with say Crusader and Front Rank? I would like to add some more characters to the camp I'm working on.

Musketier15 Aug 2012 2:10 p.m. PST

Minden really are in a class of their own: Similar height to Front Rank and Crusader, but far less bulk. So you may prefer to use Front Rank's own civilians, or the sets from Foundry and Eureka. That said, the ladies in particular could always be a little slimmer than their well-fed companions…

Personal logo andygamer Supporting Member of TMP15 Aug 2012 9:27 p.m. PST

Did abdul666lw suggest the lady carry a riding crop?
;^)

Derek H16 Aug 2012 1:46 a.m. PST

Minden are proportioned like real human beings. As a result they don't mix well with most other ranges.

abdul666lw16 Aug 2012 2:53 a.m. PST

For ladies, to be more… beautiful and look a little more petite than the men surrounding them would not be problem -quite the contrary thumbs up

OSchmidt16 Aug 2012 5:28 a.m. PST

Front Rank miniatures look too much like wargamers.

I prefer the classic Surens and Staddens who are more svelte and have human proportions, and Minden's are one of the only other lines I have ever found with real human proportions.

Gotta get me some of these! The horses are a bit dinky but…I have some Suren and Stadden horses left over.

Musketier16 Aug 2012 9:07 a.m. PST

OSchmidt, I like that FR reference! It certainly explains a lot…

Not sure I understand "dinky" in this context? The more active Minden horses are great – I'll be putting some of my civilian riders on trotting mounts. Very much looking forward to these, and more to come!

John the OFM16 Aug 2012 9:41 a.m. PST

Front Rank miniatures look too much like wargamers.

Ouch!
I must admit that my Rogers Rangers have not missed many meals.

OSchmidt16 Aug 2012 11:28 a.m. PST

Dear Musketeer

I live in Sussex County NJ. This is next to Somerset Co and Hunterdon County which is the "horse counties" where are lots of horse farms and breeding stables. Sussex has a fe too. every year Sussex has the Farmand Horse show which is one of the big events nation wide for equestrian arts, including one of the stops on the world championship and the Olympic circuit. It has show jumping etc. Love to go, love to watch the horses in the Jumps, in equitation and have been around horses all my life.

Don't feel bad, the Minden Horses are very nice, some of the better ones in fact. But horses look taller and more graceful than that. Admittedly, some makers make their horses look like dogs, (most put them in poses that make them run like dogs too. I have a prejudice for Surens and Staddens horses. First off they are big and long and they have one disadvanctage their legs are in scale so they are slender, but every pose I get from Stadden or Suren is in a pose I've seen in the rink or leading up to a fence or oxer.

It's purely a personal thing. You can also tell that whoever did these lines knew horses. Some of them look like they were modeled on Arabians, some on Long Hunters, some on Quarter horses. Even the Indian ponies look like the real ones.

Like I said, unless you know it won't matter. Besides, let's remember that they aren't REAL horses, their little lead figures which means you have to mold them which imposes restrictions on the figure that don't care about equine biology. The most realistically sculpted horse which can't be molded won't be much good to us.

I pay for my prejudices. Willie and Suren Horses are very fragile and the legs bend and snap because they're so realistic. Often, I have to gouge out a channell in the leg of a rearing horse and insert a hard steel wire mandrel to make sure it stands up. Horses inside the unit I can make do with a single steel strut up from the base to keep it from bending. These are of course those with only two feet on the ground. Those with four feet on the ground (For Suren and Stadden) are ok.


Also at the Horse Show are "driving days" where they bring in wagons and rigs hitched to teams, and they have the Frisians and Shire Horses pulling weight. As much of a cliche as it is Annheuser Busch has their promotional team.
for me its quire an education as you see how the horses move under harness, how they steer the wagon, what all those complicated leads and ropes do.

It's why I am making limbers and teams for each and every gun in my army of the Princess of Saxe-Burlap und Schleswig-Beerstein. The light Siege pieces of the siege train are pulled by 12 horse teams.

The Heavyweights in the siege train are towed by Elephants.

The Show gave me an opportunity to inflict some historical knowledge on the city folk. One day at the Oxen Pull, some people from New York, sitting in front of me, asked me what this was all about. I told them that back in the pre-modern days before the internal combustion engine or steam, these creatures was how farmers cleared their fields. Every year nature throws up a new crop of stones which have to be cleared from the field before you can plow it (otherwise you'll break the plow) so you went out with a team of Oxen and a thick wooden sled (a wagon would not take the weight) and you hauled the stones to the sledge and when it was full, got the Oxen going to pull the sledge to the edge of the field where you tossed off the stones. I also told them that these Oxen were the bull dozers and earth graders of the pre modern world, and the prime movers for wagons and especially the great ordinannacne of war, and that some of the heaviest sidege guns would require up to a dozen yoke of oxen to pull.

It's wonderful to be able now and then to make use of a totally useless education.

Musketier17 Aug 2012 5:08 a.m. PST

Dear Otto,

I'm with you all the way, including the delights of allegedly useless information. My query was just about the meaning of "dinky" here (English not being my native language).

I do like the Minden (Ebob?) horses precisely because they're so much closer to realistic proportions than most other manufacturers', but of course the 'Old School' sculptors' were even better (if possibly over the thin line of wargaming ruggedness, as you describe). In fact I bought a set of Holger Ericsson cavalry when in Stockholm recently, just for the look of the horses.

Oh and I include as many draft teams as I can in my Horse & Musket armies – without them all the Great Captains wouldn't have gotten very far would they?

OSchmidt17 Aug 2012 8:14 a.m. PST

Dear Musketeer

Oh my goodness! When you say Holger Erickson, do you mean the old S.A.E. sets! I have a pile of those given to me when a dear wargamer friend died and I don't have the courage to use them. The Horses legs on some of those were extraordinarily fragile!

Anyway, no problem. I'm glad to meet someone who understands what I'm talking about.

Also thanks for telling me that I'm not the only one who obsesses about such things as limbers and teams.

Musketier18 Aug 2012 9:02 a.m. PST

No such antiques, just the current production of Tradition Scandinavia, as sold at the Stockholm Army Museum shop (or available for mail order from SSM in the UK). – An impulse buy if I ever made one, seeing as I have no plans to wargame the period using that range. But they'll make a nice vignette to paint up when I need a change from whatever I'm doing.

John Clements18 Aug 2012 1:55 p.m. PST

Can I second Musketier on the Holger Erikson horses. I have a painted up dragoon regiment in charging mode and they are very distinctive. Yes, fragile but you can base them and store them in proper boxes and they'll be OK. I'm intending to slowly grow my collection of these in between my more serious interests, so back to these Mindens.

I think these are about as good as wargames horses get. OSchmidt highlights the problems of the older style horses, good though they are. I would add that some are a bit cartoonish with ill-defined faces, ears and manes, and some of the galloping poses are over the top, so I have chosen to remount my Willie-style figures on trotting or cantering horses. The Minden horses are well enough proportioned; their riders fit properly, and they don't break off at the ankles. I can't think of any better ones in production at present.

Paint Pig18 Aug 2012 8:43 p.m. PST

The Minden horses are well enough proportioned; their riders fit properly, and they don't break off at the ankles. I can't think of any better ones in production at present.
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Neither can I John C.

regards
dave

Come In Nighthawk26 Aug 2012 1:42 p.m. PST

At last… SYW ladies riding side-saddle………

abdul666lw27 Aug 2012 1:57 a.m. PST

"Same character on foot and mounted":

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grin
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*Seriously*, Frank, such sets are extremely precious for 'adventure' games.

Carrion Crow28 Aug 2012 5:25 a.m. PST

Outpost Wargames do a woman riding sidesaddle in their Highwayman range which might fit your needs as well, and the price point (2.50) is pretty good too.

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abdul666lw05 Sep 2012 5:31 a.m. PST

See them in metal link
Both wearing a tricorne, eventually.

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abdul666lw05 Sep 2012 7:41 a.m. PST

My old eyes betrayed be, still a slouched hat.
Free choice of horse in the whole Minden range.

abdul666lw06 Sep 2012 3:49 a.m. PST

A minor regret, too bad the 'lady riding sidesaddle' in the more 'generic' (and thus useful) pose wears a slouched hat. I know there are a few contemporary portraits with such

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(but none afaik of a riding woman) and of course Keira Knightley in 'The Duchess' sports one.
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But all the 18th C. paintings of 'ladies in riding habit' I found on the web show a tricorne, except one (from a later date) with a jockey cap.
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A tricorne would be far more typical, and is far more 'period specific', immediately 'tagging' a figurine "18th C.".
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melfortuk08 Sep 2012 1:09 p.m. PST

are there any ladies riding sidesaddle in 15mm,(preferably 18th century) but prepared to kitbash any suitable figure.

abdul666lw08 Sep 2012 2:17 p.m. PST

All 18th C. 15mm players I know had to resort to conversions, e.g. link

database error11 Sep 2012 4:57 a.m. PST

A minor regret, too bad the 'lady riding sidesaddle' in the more 'generic' (and thus useful) pose wears a slouched hat. I know there are a few contemporary portraits with such
picture(but none afaik of a riding woman)

Here are a few for you:-

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abdul666lw11 Sep 2012 8:54 a.m. PST

I stand corrected (though with the impression that with riding habits the slouched hat became more fashionable late in the 18th C.); yet many of us would have preferred the 'almost military' look of the tricorne.
While Frank hopefully sells SYW privates by the bucket for tabletop games, civilian (female, specially) characters will be the object of small individual orders, but fortunately have a wider market.
In most Imagi-Nations the queen and princesses are honorary colonels, and generally wear proudly the uniforms of their regiments.
Visual clues are important for us. For adventures / skirmish games played by historical as well as 'imaginative' wargamers a tricorne suggests a 'female hero', while the feminine slouched hat is more indicative of a 'damsel in distress'.

Now, a conversion using a tricorne from the Wargame Factory WSS generic cavalry set would probably be not too difficult?

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