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"Battle of Liegnitz 1241 using Commands and Colors" Topic

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1,011 hits since 5 Aug 2012
©1994-2017 Bill Armintrout
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mikeygees Supporting Member of TMP05 Aug 2012 9:00 p.m. PST

The Mongols started the game with 4 units of med cav, and 7 units of LH. The Poles had a total of 18 units, included were 2 units of heavy cav (Teutonics), 3 units of heavy cav German Euro knights, 7 units of Polish med cav, and 4 units of med infantry spearmen and 2 units of light infantry bowmen.



The modifications made were as follows:
Med cavalry move 2 hexes, and retreat 2 hexes
Light horse bow move 3 hexes, retreat 3 hexes, and always get two dice for shooting regardless of wether they move or not.
we did not change heavy cav stats.

Hits were applied to figures. We used 6 sided dice to keep track of hits. As soon 3 hits were achieved, a stand was removed. This being repeated til that unit was destroyed, etc..

So attrition was a big part of the game, which doubled the playing time and made it feel more like a wargame and less like a boardgame.
The Poles won, a key factor was forcing 2 units of LH off the table from retreats they could not perform.

religon Inactive Member06 Aug 2012 6:49 a.m. PST

Nice. One of the worst games I ever played was this battle using traditional miniature rules. I'm sure C&C made for a tense and enjoyable game.

If I understand the rules modifications from C&C Ancients, each cavalry unit was 3 stands with each stand taking 3 hits to destroy. With stand destruction, the units did not degrade in close combat. Retreat rules remained true to Borg's game.

My concern would be with the 4 units of medium spearmen. How did they fare in the game?

mikeygees Supporting Member of TMP06 Aug 2012 7:15 a.m. PST

You are correct, except we lessened the number of retreat hexes by one for medium cav, and light horse. Spearmen were hard to kill, basically 16 hits to destroy the unit. Makes you seek out the more vulnerable units first.

religon Inactive Member06 Aug 2012 8:39 a.m. PST

I understand that the distances for retreat were changed. By true "retreat rules," you were not introducing a saving throw or alternate mechanic to determine retreats. Flags on dice cause the unit to retreat the variant distances for L/M cavalry. I understand how allowing Light Cavalry to use 2 dice when firing while moving favors the Mongol forces.

How did the Mongols cope with the spearmen? Did they start the game peppering them with bowfire until they turned to softer units? Did they avoid them the entire game? Did they persistently harass the spearmen with bowfire until they were defeated? Did any cavalry charge a spearmen unit?

mikeygees Supporting Member of TMP06 Aug 2012 9:18 a.m. PST

The Polish spear were kept far in the back. The Mongol light horse kept their distance (3 hexes) and just peppered them any chance they could. However, it was also the spear that drove them off the board when my unit of LH was pinned between them and the boards edge. I moved two Lh units as far forward as I could, behind the Polish front line. It was there that the spear caught me off gaurd, ecspecially with them rolling 4 dice. Once they rolled swords and 3 retreat flags. I took the hit, but could not retreat the 9 hexes so I had to absorb 6 more hits which completely eliminated the unit. That was fun, and truer for historical flavor. My strategy was to avoid the infantry and seek and destroy the Med cav.

religon Inactive Member06 Aug 2012 10:14 a.m. PST

Thanks for the feedback. You had the correct strategy.

As we know, Richard Borg deems C&C Ancients unsuitable for medieval games. I have run my own variants of C&C medieval games at convention with good results.

I choose against blocks taking multiple hits for fear of lessening the benefits of Momentum Advances, Cavalry Special Momentum Advances and Bonus Close Combat for strong units.

I reduced the retreat distance of Light and Medium Cavalry exactly as you did. I did not reduce the movement distances. I like your Light Cavalry archery rule. I may try it out.

I introduced 4 new unit types into the game.
1) Aux. Medieval Levy (6 blocks, +1 A/D if 4+ blocks remain; can't shoot)
2) Formed Archers (6 blocks, +1 dice of shooting while not moving)
3) 5-block unit of Hvy Cavalry (+1 A/D)
4) 5-block unit of Med Cavalry (+1 A/D)

(Defeating large units grant 1.5 banners for victory. Many other small rules, but this is the gist.)

While not as attritional as your variant, the 6-block infantry units in my variant can prove tough to eliminate. They are too tough for opposing medium cavalry to charge until they have lost 2 or 3 blocks from archery.

Keep on Borging,

Clays Russians14 Aug 2012 2:20 p.m. PST

Borg rocks! cant wait to get the green nappy blocks…… need the damm green barbarians too!!!!!

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