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1,464 hits since 2 Aug 2012
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Byron1 Inactive Member02 Aug 2012 2:18 a.m. PST

Does anyone know if this is this a game-able period or not?
Is there any reading material or uniform guides?

thanks.

MajorB02 Aug 2012 2:22 a.m. PST

From Wikipedia:
"Queen Anne's War (1702–1713), as the North American theater of the War of the Spanish Succession was known in the British colonies, was the second in a series of French and Indian Wars"

- so it's part of the French & Indian Wars.
Very gameable then.
How about the "Muskets and Tomahawks" rules?

Byron1 Inactive Member02 Aug 2012 2:37 a.m. PST

Hi Margard,
I can't seem to find any reading material for that specific period.
I'm assuming that the uniforms if there were any would be more WSS in style rather than SYW.
Or was it more settlers vs local indians?

MajorB02 Aug 2012 3:11 a.m. PST
zippyfusenet Inactive Member02 Aug 2012 5:28 a.m. PST

If you research it you can come up with some unusual scenarios. Like Carolina traders with Shawnee and Creek allies raiding the Spanish missions in Florida for Indian slaves to sell to the sugar planters in Jamaica. Colorful. Obscure. And very revealing of our early history.

2close2theflame Inactive Member02 Aug 2012 5:31 a.m. PST

fun period of history!

2close2theflame Inactive Member02 Aug 2012 5:32 a.m. PST

as for miniatures my favorites for FIW are conquest miniatures!

Personal logo Lentulus Supporting Member of TMP02 Aug 2012 6:08 a.m. PST

You could get a decent little campaign out of this

link

michaelsbagley02 Aug 2012 6:13 a.m. PST

As a reenactor I did a crap ton of research on the uniforms of the Independent Companies which were the most common type of (British) unit in the colonies. I can be of help there. From the research I've done on battles, you would likely want to focus on company level rules… although if you did something like the 1704 raid on Deerfield, skirmish (many dozen combatants per side) would be good.

Byron1 Inactive Member02 Aug 2012 7:30 a.m. PST

Thanks everyone,

It seems to me that Queen Anne's war was a smaller fore runner of the FIW.

Can I use my British WSS figures for the Independent Companies and marines?

zippyfusenet Inactive Member02 Aug 2012 8:02 a.m. PST

You sure can. I think the Independent Companies mostly had green facings. At a later time I'm sure they did.

Mako11 Supporting Member of TMP Inactive Member02 Aug 2012 8:17 a.m. PST

I think it is very gameable.

Finding a lot of concrete info on the period, especially in the Americas (including the Caribbean), seems to be a little difficult though.

Anyone know of any good books on the subject?

Lots of opportunities for battles between various nations and their allies, as well as indians, natives, etc.

Add in privateers and pirates, and you can have a lot of fun.

Personal logo Lentulus Supporting Member of TMP02 Aug 2012 8:38 a.m. PST

It seems to me that Queen Anne's war was a smaller fore runner of the FIW.

Really, the war(s?) ran for more than a century. *The* FIW just happened to be the time the Brits won.

michaelsbagley02 Aug 2012 10:56 a.m. PST

Marines were not stationed in the colonies during Queen Anne's War… but contrary to Zippy's post, my research indicates red coats with blue facings for North American Independent companies.

Now in all fairness, I have seen sources that indictate the green (secondary sources)… and I have yet to find definitive evidence for the blue in primary sources, butt out of the evidence III have found, the blue seems more credible than the green to me.

I'll try and remember to post some book titles for you when I get home tonight

zippyfusenet Inactive Member02 Aug 2012 6:54 p.m. PST

michaels, although Queen Anne's Marines were not stationed in the colonies, they were aboard ships that sailed American waters and fought the French afloat and ashore:

June Tabor sings Admiral Benbow

We sailed from Virginia and thence to Fayall
Where we watered our ship and then we weighed all.
Full in view on the seas, boys, seven sails we did espy;
We mannéd our capstans and weighed speedily.

Now the first we come up on was a brigantine sloop
And we asked if the others was as big as they looked;
Ah, but turning to windward, as near as we could lie
We saw there were ten men of war cruising by.

We drew up our squadron in very nice line
And boldly we fought them for full four hours time;
But the day being spent, boys, and the night a-coming on
We left them alone till the early next morn.

Now the very next morning the engagement proved hot
And brave Admiral Benbow received a chain shot;
And as he was wounded to his merry men he did say,
"Take me up in your arms, boys, and carry me away!"

Oh, the guns they did rattle and the bullets did fly,
But brave Admiral Benbow for rout would not cry;
"Take me down to the cabin where there's ease for my smarts,
If my merry men see me, it would sure break their hearts."

Now, the very next morning by break of the day
They hoisted their topsails and so bore away;
We bore to Port Royal, where the people flocked much
To see Admiral Benbow carried to Kingston Church.

Come all you brave fellows, wherever you've been,
Let us drink to the health of our King and our Queen,
And another good health to the girls that we know,
And a third in remembrance of great Admiral Benbow.

zippyfusenet Inactive Member02 Aug 2012 7:14 p.m. PST

I can't say that independent companies never wore red faced blue, but blue facings in the English army were usually reserved for royal regiments, not for lowly independents in a distant colony.

As for sources…Queen Anne's War is far overshadowed, in my library at least, by the decisive French & Indian War. In contrast, Queen Anne's War was an early round of conflict, where the contestants grappled for a while and then returned to their corners.

The only general history I have of Queen Anne's War is in Francis Parkman England and France in North America. The volume A Half-Century of Conflict runs from 1700 to about 1750 and includes this war. I've never seen that volume seperately reprinted, you'll have to get the whole set of England and France. Parkman's focus is on the British colonies and their conflict with New France. He doesn't write much about the naval war, or events in Louisiana or the Carribean.

The Deerfield raid really left a mark. I have two related monographs: Richard I. Melvoin New England Outpost/War and Society in Colonial Deerfield is a history of the town, emphasizing the raid. John Demos The Unredeemed Captive/A Family Story from Early America is about Eunice Williams, captured as a small child in the Deerfield raid, and adopted as a Mohawk.

Alan Galay The Indian Slave Trade won the Bancroft prize in 2003. Nothing about Queen Anne's War here, but it covers Carolina's predation on the Florida missions in that period.

Musketier Supporting Member of TMP03 Aug 2012 3:05 a.m. PST

Green period cloth can take on a blueish hue as the yellow component of the dye fades first – might that explain the conundrum?

michaelsbagley03 Aug 2012 5:52 a.m. PST

Zippyfusenet, using F&IW sources for QAW is like using American War of Independence sources for Napoleonic research… while only a few decades separate them, the styles changed significantly enough that comparisons are fallacious.

"The Unredeemed Captive" was one of the books I was going to suggest… as was the firsthand account "Captors and Captives" by one of the victims of the raid (the town preacher and, I forgot his name). Most of the sources I used to come to my findings about the uniforms of the period were from newspaper articles from the archives of the time, and colonial papers containing letters of requisition to England from the colonies took my research ontbat topic very seriously anxwould even consider any writing that covered broad time spans, so as to avoid the era creep of using F&IW stuff into my very specific era of research.

That all said, I do not completely ignore the sources that point to green for the colour, and to take that further I have seen just as many sources (again modern sources) for the use of yellow rather than green or blue. The main reason I hold blue as the most likely, is a letter from Boston to England dated to 1711(?, going from memory here can cite letter specifically from my home computer where my research resides) that states the commander required red and blue fabric to uniform their soldiers as the ones based in New York (which had Independent Companies). New York MAY have had other companies present during QAW, which is why I don't take the blue as gospel. But that letter is the ONLY specific mention of uniform colours in the colonies during QAW that I have found, and I have looked extensively while ignoring modern sources.

All that aside, if a war gamer showed up with QAW red coat minis painted with yellow, green or blue facings on their minis… I would be too happy about finding someone interested in the period to debate their choice of interpretation (that would also extend to a reenactor).

michaelsbagley03 Aug 2012 5:59 a.m. PST

The song you mentioned… a quick Google search showed the tune dates to the 1680s (an earlier song of a different name), but the lyrics couldn't be dated to prior to the late 19th century. Anyone who has done serious historic research knows the Victorian historians did not have a good track record of holding true to earlier time periods, and often applied historian logic to vastly different historical eras.

Edit: a bit more searching found a copy going back to the 1820s… but still the pint remains.

michaelsbagley03 Aug 2012 7:15 a.m. PST

I apologize for the sloppy typing of my last few posts. I usually post from my home computer, but have had a hectic week at home and have only been able to check in from the pocket mobile device (which I fat-finger on a lot).

However, another rule set you may wish to consider for this is 2 Hour War games "Muskets and Mohawks" (which i like as much as "Muskets and Tomahawks"), orDadi and Piombi's "Smooth and Rifled" (which i know nothing about and would like to hear more about)

zippyfusenet Inactive Member03 Aug 2012 10:09 a.m. PST

Regardless when tune or lyrics were composed, Admiral Benbow's last battle took place in 1702. My point, which I could have made more clearly, is that the Atlantic naval war was the fulcrum of the War of Spanish Succession, as was true for all of Britain's 18th century wars, and that the American colonies were an integral part of that war.

the commander required red and blue fabric to uniform their soldiers

Could the uniforms have been blue with red facings? This was a very common combination for provincial troops in British North America. But I admit, you have researched this era while I am only guessing.

Do you recommend any general histories of Queen Anne's War, or the War of Spanish Succession overall? I would like to read one. I have books on different episodes: the Deerfield raid, the war in Spain, the battle of Blenheim, but nothing that pulls all the episodes together into the context of the world war.

michaelsbagley03 Aug 2012 10:36 a.m. PST

My well thought out and well worded reply went to CR@p by a fat finger… I'll try again later

marco56 Supporting Member of TMP27 Oct 2012 4:02 a.m. PST

The French had the Colonial companies in this war and they had uniforms.
Mark

abdul666lw Inactive Member27 Oct 2012 6:25 a.m. PST

Their intervention may be an unhistorical "what-if?", but did not the Comanches still rode armored horses by then?

picture

(from link).
Such leather protection was still (in a reduced form) used by the Mexican dragones de cuera well in the 18th C.
picture

Queen Catherine11 Dec 2015 9:48 a.m. PST

Armored comanches aside, I'm interested in doing some of the battles for this period with my WSS figs, so if anyone has additional info, I'd appreciate it.

Queen Catherine12 Dec 2015 12:58 p.m. PST

Ok, a little look at Amazon came up with the following:

The Colonial Wars (The Chicago History of American Civilization), Howard H. Peckham

Flintlock and Tomahawk: New England in King Philip's War,
Douglas Edward Leach

The First Frontier: The Forgotten History of Struggle, Savagery, and… Scott Weidensaul

The border wars of New England, commonly called King William's and Queen Anne's wars by Drake, Samuel Adams

Oddly, there's a whole bunch more books on King William's War. Don't know why it is better published than Queen Anne's…

Anyone have anything else, especially if it is pertinent to wargaming, uniforms, etc?

Queen Catherine12 Dec 2015 2:48 p.m. PST

Here's a few more from my library. Be Warned, some are trashed on Amazon, so you may want to do a little research before picking a book, even from the library.

"A Few Acres of Snow": The Saga of the French and Indian Wars"
by Robert Leckie

Struggle for a continent : the French and Indian wars, 1690-1760
by Marrin, Albert.

The ransom of Mercy Carter
by Cooney, Caroline B.

"The history of the wars of New-England with the eastern Indians, or a narrative of their continued perfidy and cruelty, from the 10th of August, 1703, to the peace renewed 13th of July, 1713. And from the 25th of July, 1722, to their submission 15th December, 1725, which was ratified August 5th, 1726."
by Penhallow, Samuel, 1665-1726.
Now THAT's a title – without an editor…

Captive histories : English, French, and Native narratives of the 1704 Deerfield raid
Haefeli, Evan, 1969-
Sweeney, Kevin, 1950-

The redeemed captive returning to Zion.
by Williams, John, 1664-1729.

The unredeemed captive : a family story from early America
by Demos, John.

zippyfusenet Inactive Member13 Dec 2015 5:00 p.m. PST

Here's your problem, if you want to use European regular infantry in North America:

Queen Anne's War was a good 60 years before King George's War (the F&IW proper). That's two generations, and a lot happened in that 60 years. At the turn of the 18th century, both British and French North American colonies were much smaller and weaker than during the F&IW. Pennsylvania was just getting started, Philadelphia wasn't even founded until 1681, Georgia wasn't founded until 1732. The Ohio country, west of the mountains and south of the lakes, was a rumor. Florida was Spanish to the Carolina border.

In Queen Anne's War, there were no infantry regiments of the French or British army in North America, just a few Independent Companies, whose role was to garrison the permanent fortifications of the major ports: Boston, New York, Charleston, Quebec, Montreal. There were no field battles or even sieges involving regular infantry.

The fighting that took place was in the back country, involving Indians, militia, rangers, provincials, a few Troupes de la Marine. The books you have listed cover this well. But your redcoats and whitecoats will have to stay in Flanders and Spain.

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