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"15mm Napoleonic Prussian Landwehr w/ British Shako" Topic


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23 Jul 2012 9:31 a.m. PST
by Editor in Chief Bill

  • Changed title from "15mmNapoleonic Prussian Landwehr w/ British Shako" to "15mm Napoleonic Prussian Landwehr w/ British Shako"

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Comments or corrections?

RuLane23 Jul 2012 9:07 a.m. PST

Ordered the OG pack of Prussian Landwehr in British Shako pack only to find it was also in English uniform. Does anyone know if anyone makes Prussian Landwehr in Prussian uniforms w/English shako, as per:

link

I don't waant to head convert hundreds in 15mm…

Or should I just buy some Portuguese and paint accordingly?

Thanks!

Fredloan23 Jul 2012 9:11 a.m. PST

AB is coming out with the Waterloo line very quickly, like a month or two away. Maybe convert Dutch or Belgians

SJDonovan23 Jul 2012 9:35 a.m. PST

Minifigs do Landwehr in stovepipe shakoes, both in long coats and short coats:

link

picture
picture

picture
picture

Personal logo Rrobbyrobot Supporting Member of TMP23 Jul 2012 10:11 a.m. PST

Good old Minifigs.

ancientsgamer23 Jul 2012 10:31 a.m. PST

Paging Russ! Blue Moon will eventually have, I would presume since they are going to have "the most comprehensive line of Napoleonics in 18mm, period". They will have to add this to the list. It would be nice to see Landwehr and Reserves variations like this, I would buy a ton as I plan to have more than one corps eventually ;-)

Glengarry 423 Jul 2012 11:38 a.m. PST

The figures you ordered were not meant to represent Landwehr but Reserve soldiers in English made uniforms orginially intended for the Portuguese. Buying Portuguse wouldn't help as they are not wearing the long Litkwa coat.

John de Terre Neuve23 Jul 2012 12:19 p.m. PST

I am curious which Landwehr unit are you painting. The cent jours site link does not tell me what actual regiment you are painting.

John

summerfield24 Jul 2012 1:54 a.m. PST

Dear All
There is a great deal of confusion over Landwehr uniform. The official M1814 pattern uniform had a short jacket rather than Litewka. Also British supplied stovepipe shakos were permitted. Again this was a retrospective order. See extracts from Summerfield (2011) Prussian Landwehr Infantry and Cavalry 1813-1815 etc…, Partizan Press.
link
Stephen

ancientsgamer24 Jul 2012 5:08 a.m. PST

Make sure you aren't confusing the reserve uniform for the Landwehr one…. It is well known that many of the reserve regiments, 13th thru 24th were clothed in British supplied uniforms. These were later raised to full line status as the War of Liberation went on. This was part of the Krumper system to get around the limitations of the peace treaty with Napoleon. Essentially rotating active units to inactive while bringing in new recruits under new regiments, effectively doubling the size of the army. Landwehr were raised with little if any training and were true militia.

summerfield24 Jul 2012 5:27 a.m. PST

Dear Chris
The Krumper System was in effect a slight modification of the Canton system of Frederick William, the father of Frederick the Great. Most of the soldiers were old soldiers and not Krumper. Consider the size of the 1806 army at over 100000 and the limitations of barely 42000. This is explained at length in another of my books.
link

If you have any questions then please ask.
Stephen

RuLane24 Jul 2012 11:36 a.m. PST

Guys,

Thank you for all your kind responses so far. I'm all over the various differences between Landwehr/Reserve. David Nash's 1972 book on The Prussian Army is my bible and it is remakably comprehensive on Reserve uniforms (although one could argue the toss for years if you wanted). Landwehr uniforms are more of a jedi art. The vast majority fall into the classic landwehr expectations, but many had the English shako in particular, and other elements more generally.

I'm trying to represent the 1st Westphalian Landwehr which, according to the Mont St-Jean website, had Prussian or British uniforms with the breast lace stripped, and English Stovepipe shakos with a white cross. The OG pack I'm referring to has full on English uniforms i.e. including breast lace, such as that worn by 1/13 (1st Westphalian) RIR, & 2 & 3/16 (3rd Westphalian) RIR.

So any thoughts on short british-style coat (minus breast lace) landwehr with English Stovepipe shako? Those Minifigs are close, but I like a bit of 'variety' so perhaps that other Prussian Landwehr (Silesian) pack from OG that someone suggested? Thank you all so much

John de Terre Neuve24 Jul 2012 1:59 p.m. PST

No help as you are doing 15 mm, but for us 28 mm gamers, I believe the Calpe codes PR33-42 a style uniform would work, aside from having to scrap off the shako plate.

picture

I suspect you could also get away with the c style uniform.
picture

Images from the Calpe site.

A very interesting uniform.

John

Camcleod24 Jul 2012 5:39 p.m. PST

Be wary of the Mont St-Jean website.

According Mr. Summerfield's 'Prussian Landwehr Infantry and Cavalry 1813-1815' the 1st Westphalian Ldwr. wore regular Ldwr. dress of cap and litewka.

There is a contemporary plate by Genty supposedly depicting a Westphalian Ldwrman in short coat and English shako, but the caption only says he is a Rhinelander and doesn't say which regt.

RudyNelson25 Jul 2012 3:37 a.m. PST

Like the comment above, I thought the unit was in basic landwehr cap.

The 21st Reserve Rgt or 4th Pommeranian is noted in a number of books as wearing the English stovepipe.

RuLane25 Jul 2012 8:51 p.m. PST

Thanks all. Looks like its fair to say I can pick whichever uniform I feel like so long as I'm happy with the result! That'll see me prevaricate for another 6 months at least…! Thank you all so much for your help.

RuLane26 Jul 2012 10:19 a.m. PST

Actually, final question – does anyone have any photos of OGs PLM01 Silesian Landwehr or BHs Reservists in British Shako/Landwehr in short coat/Landwehr advancing that they could put on here? Just trying to work exactly what uniforms they have depicted. Thanks

Camcleod28 Jul 2012 5:28 p.m. PST

From some notes I made a while ago:

PLM01 – cap and litewka – standard Ldwr. uniform.
PLM02 – cap and short coat – standard early Reserve Inf. uniform
PLM03 – covered shako and litewka – std. Ldwr. in Prussian style shako – some figures have caps same as in PLM01.
PLM04 – stovepipe shako and short coat – Reserve uniform wearing English supplied uniforms

OG doesn't actually make Silesian Ldwr. wearing the Stovepipe shako.

RuLane29 Jul 2012 7:52 a.m. PST

Very helpful Camcleod, thank you

teper1961 Supporting Member of TMP07 Jun 2020 12:19 a.m. PST

I know this is an old post, but wondered if there have been any 18mm manufacturers that have now introduced the Prussian landwehr in litewka wearing the stovepipe shako?

From a copyright view. If i kept them for my own use, is there any reason why i could buy figures and convert them?

many thanks

arthur181507 Jun 2020 1:07 a.m. PST

No reason why you shouldn't – they're your figures, do what you want with them!

You could even sell them secondhand.

The only copyright issue that arises is if you use your conversions as masters from which to make moulds and manufacture copies of your conversions for sale.

stephen116222 Jun 2020 10:44 a.m. PST

teper1961,

As of now there are no 15mm or 18mm manufacturers of Prussian Landwehr in British shako.

Here's what I see out there:

AB 18mm – Landwehr in cap
Blue Moon 18mm – Landwehr in cap
Old Glory 15mm+ – Landwehr in cap or Prussian shako
Battle Honours 15mm – Landwehr in cap
Minifigs 15mm – ?
Essex Miniatures 15mm – Landwehr in cap or Prussian shako

teper1961 Supporting Member of TMP22 Jun 2020 11:11 a.m. PST

stephen1162

You have forgotten
Campaign Game Miniatures 18mm landwehr in cap

Anthony Barton (AB Figures) and Dermot Quigley (Campaign Game Miniatures) have both said they will be bringing out a suitable model. When they will be available i am not sure.
watch the websites..

teper1961 Supporting Member of TMP30 Sep 2020 6:48 a.m. PST

UPDATE Dermot Quigley from Campaign Game miniatures has just released some 15mm Prussian Landwehr in the British Stovepipe shako.
They are not on the website yet but are available direct if you contact him.

Anthony Barton30 Sep 2020 11:10 a.m. PST

The AB ones are also out, go to the AB website and find the last entries under Prussian Infantry..

https://abfigures.com/92-infantry?p=3

ReallySameSeneffeAsBefore30 Sep 2020 1:08 p.m. PST

Anthony- they look great- i'll be buying some.

Slightly off topic- have you considered producing and 1813 Prusiian Cuirassiers in the white kollet? The Litewka is well known as their 'campaign' dress of course. However, von Winterfeldt (I think) unearthed some archive material not too long ago that the Cuirassiers in 1813-14 were actually ordered to don their white kollets on days that battle was expected- which is of course the timeslot we wargamers are mostlt recreating.

Personal logo SHaT1984 Supporting Member of TMP30 Sep 2020 2:07 p.m. PST

>>the Cuirassiers in 1813-14 were actually ordered to don their white kollets on days that battle was expected-

Actually thats even in Osprey- retained "at the reqiest of the Allies" and units marched with Allies in a grand 'Reserve Division' so that all looked the same, ie Austrians and Prussian, from a distance.

OTOH- shouldn't be a problem to file a few dozen ribbons from the chests of Brit uniforms. Once done and painted flat colours the'd hardly be noticeable in smaller scales. I modify a few Brits as generals/ staff to French @ 28mm and it works fine.
cheers d

teper1961 Supporting Member of TMP01 Oct 2020 8:14 a.m. PST

LOL, just like Buses. You wait ages for one, then two come along at once!
Both of these are nice looking figures as always…

ReallySameSeneffeAsBefore02 Oct 2020 5:19 a.m. PST

Hi SHaT. Interesting about the mention of white kollets in battle in one of the Ospreys- could you point me to which one?

von Winterfeldt02 Oct 2020 10:57 p.m. PST

in a regimental history of the Brandenburgisches Kürassier Regiment by Monteton – is mentioned on page 193 – that form about early June 1813 the regiment should wear Kollets, tunics, instead of the Litwka.

So it seems that in the spring campaign the blue Litewka was worn – and in the Autumn campaign (weather permitting) the white tunic.

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