"So how was Historicon and give a grade from A to F?" Topic

"Right. Because the Lancaster Host is a shining model of a venue, once you've walked there from your parking spot in New Jersey, negotiated the multi-levels of stairs and got lost a few times finding your way around the bizarre layout. It's adequate for a smaller con."

I didn't see him say that the Host was a five star resort. However, when an event has had record attendance over 4,000 (I believe) and the best guess for current attendance is around 2,700, the reference to a golden age is not all that misplaced.

Also, incessant whining about parking at the Host is overblown beyond belief. I went to every Hcon there, and never in 20 years did it take more than a couple minutes to find a parking space.

"If your biggest complaint was that your 20 friends did not show up then I suggest you guys all meet near your house to game. If there is such contingent that is so determined to not cross the PA line then there obviously is enough of a following to hold a convention in the NY/NJ area. If not at the same time as Historicon, how about June or August. The biggest move north screamers can be in charge. I would love to see the cost breakdown for food, travel, lodging, and venue space. You can even wave the HMGS banner if you like. Call it Historicon North. If you space it right you will get all the same vendors. Heck, some of us southern homers might come check it out too. All your buddies who are afraid to drive through DC can make it. "

LOL. I shudder to my core to think of the howling, whining, and cries of sabotage that would start if someone did try to start a competing convention in PA.

"There are plenty of go arounds. Half the map sites on the internet will give you options to try, with time estimates given current traffic conditions."

I didn't realize it was so easy to just sidestep traffic in major metro areas. There are about 40 million people in the northeast sitting in traffic every day who would love your secret routes. There's a billion dollar business there for you!

"Unless you are going to somehow convince Delaware to give up its taxing of everyone driving through it there will be a traffic backup there. If you decide to drive through a major metropolitan area during rush hour there will be traffic there. Otherwise DC traffic moves at or above the speed limit most of the time. Can't control tourists who run off the road while reading a map. Happens from time to time."

So state taxes and tolls and traffic patterns are not part of the criteria when evaluating a convention location? Acts of god? DC traffic moves at the speed limit most of the time? Can we get a DC area poll on that?

"If you have some sort of health problem which precludes you doing certain things I suggest you plan for that rather than try and force the organization to cater to you. Sorry, but I have little sympathy if you can't walk 100 yards outside. Maybe summer conventions are not for you. There are two other HMGS conventions you could check out. One is in the snow usually."

Look, I don't think walking to Wegmans was a big exertion, but the point that the convention center food was garbage is valid. I thought the Host's food was crap, but it could be served on white tablecloths next to the slop at FCC.

"If you can't wait 20 seconds to pee perhaps you need to plan better. That was about the longest I waited. Better aim would do a lot to fix the bathroom cleanliness issue. Perhaps HMGS could invest in some paper targets to put in the commodes. Maybe they need to ban ads in front of the urinals as they are too distracting and spoil gamers' aim."

Ok, at risk of criticizing the holy Frederickburg convention center, when you have 2,700+ attendees (almost all one gender) you actually have to clean the bathrooms. Rocket science, I know, I know. It's all the gamers' fault. In fact, it's probably LIGs secret sabotage cabal…kill the convention by peeing on the floor!

The bathrooms were pigsties because the convention center did not clean them.

Have to agree with flicking war gamer here…

There are ways around that traffic…my uncle who used to frequent DC told us ways around it.The majority of that traffic is caused from people who work in DC and live in outlying areas, and from vacation goers who have no idea about other routes…as quoted from my uncle. Anyone with common sense should be able to figure out an alternate route to avoid traffic, even if it says it may take an extra hour, but it will beat sitting in traffic for 2 hours! It is quite simple to sidestep the traffic…I did it. No traffic whatsoever coming down from PA, through Maryland and West Virginia a little bit and into Virginia itself. Navigated using my iPhone and some printed off google map directions…which showed traffic areas as well, super convenient! Even when I've driven to South Carolina for vacation…everyone told us to avoid the DC area. Simple, found a way around it and got there traffic free.

Have to agree about the bathrooms though…some common courtesy could be used as well. Walked into a stall and there was a "present" waiting for me…come on people what does it take to flush? Didn't have to wait long, but they were a mess at times.

Civildisobedience, do you know if Early Persian will be back to defend his points or will you be speaking for him from now on?

"Also, incessant whining about parking at the Host is overblown beyond belief. I went to every Hcon there, and never in 20 years did it take more than a couple minutes to find a parking space."

I never complained about parking at The Host since I always stayed there and my car never moved after I arrived, but to be fair there is FAR less parking available there now since that big muddy field used for overflow is gone. There is a new shopping center over there with a big wall blocking it off from the hotel. I imagine even if there wasn't a parking problem before there certainly is now for an event as big as Historicon.

Jeremy,

No idea. Don't know him, don't know who he is. I'm just tired of anyone who doesn't think FCC is nirvana getting trashed. The guy didn't say anything that lots of other people didn't.

D+

In response to the vitriolic barbs thrown my way, thanks for the welcome. It is true that I have never posted a message on this web site before because I first learned of it at Historicon. I would have listed that information as a positive experience from the convention. But apparently, any dissent is not welcomed here.
Unfortunately for the convention organizers, I am not an agent from the Host or for anyone else. I am a concerned wargamer who had always looked forward to attending Historicon, which until recently, was the premiere event of the year. I have always believed that Historicon is more of a national event, and not a regional one like Fall-in or Cold Wars, since it attracts people from all over the country. Whether the convention is in Virginia , Pennsylvania, or some other state is of no concern to me if the facilities are satisfactory. Here, this venue is not. I do not understand how anyone can host any convention at this Expo center with the lack of bathrooms that exist at this facility. I also do not know how they are going to correct the noise issue. It does not seem to me to be such an easy fix.
Furthermore, whether some choose to recognize it or not, there were too many game cancellations at this convention, more than any other convention. Someone needs to find out why so many GM's cancelled. Was it the location or for some other reason? Also, my friends who registered by mail were not enrolled in a single game, not one. What is the problem here? Is mail registration enrollment no longer a viable option?
I was not aware of the additional parking at the rear of the Expo until someone posted that information on this website. Again, that just supports my statement that there was a lack of dissemination of information to wargamers who have come out of state and are not familiar with the area or the facility. Some game cancellations were posted but not others. Maybe an information booth would help.
For those looking for positive, there were some, but not many. The few games that I did play were well managed by the GM. The dealer area was a good size and easy to find. I was able to meet up with some friends I have not seen in a while. However, the comfort level was important to me and that was lacking between the inadequate bathrooms,airconditioning problems, lack of decent healthy food,and the noise issue.
With the exception of my statement about the parking, I stand by my review. Because the parking may have been better than I thought, I give the facility a D+. To those who object to my rating, it is not far off from some of the C and C- I have seen on the website.
If convention organizers want us to travel a great distance to come, then they have to make it worth our while. For me, it was not worth the trip to this particular venue.

The correct procedure for parking at the Host is to arrive two days early, park your car and walk for the next few days. If, like me, you are foolish enough to stay some distance away (I have friends in Lancaster) you will arrive each day and park in a field some hundreds of yards from your destination.

I am willing and able to do this. By wargaming standards I am fit and athletic :) It's no hardship unless you are carrying a cargo of wargaming supplies. In that case it's a matter of waiting at the loading dock, dragging your stuff into the hall, persuading someone to keep an eye on it, then driving the car to your next parking spot and returning on foot.

It's a pain in the nether regions, especially in bad weather. I've done this in heavy rain and snow.

At the FCC I borrowed a hotel trolley, took everything down to the con, and kept it until it was time to return to my hotel. Much, much easier.

Early Persian, you say that you learned of TMP at Historicon but your first visit here was July 5. Anyone has a right to their opinions but if you post falsehoods people will call you out.

Mexican Jack Squint on 25 Jul 2012 11:49 a.m. PST wrote:
The correct procedure for parking at the Host is to arrive two days early, park your car and walk for the next few days. ….I am willing and able to do this. By wargaming standards I am fit and athletic :)

Good for you Howard, dare I say some could learn from your example!

It's a pain in the nether regions, especially in bad weather. I've done this in heavy rain and snow.

At the FCC I borrowed a hotel trolley, took everything down to the con, and kept it until it was time to return to my hotel. Much, much easier.

HMGS purchased several handcarts and they were used by the GM help desk (long since dead as I understand it now), They should still have them for GM use.

VR
James Mattes

Yes, Early Persian, you do not love the FCC, so you must be an agent of evil. Tell me, does TSA take you aside for special screening? Are you a member of Al-Qaeda sent here to destroy Historicon at the FCC? Do you have James Bond suspended over a shark tank somewhere in your dark lair?

FCC is a convention space very much like any other. It is a good layout for the convention. It is also noisy, has hard concrete floors, the worst folding chairs I've ever seen, filthy bathrooms, sparse water stations, and crappy food. It has perfectly adequate parking for an emaciated Historicon, but I reserve judgment on how it would handle the 3,500-4,000 attendees that prompt the incessant whining about parking at the Host. It is not bigger than the Host, so it offers no room for growth other than to get back where we were years ago.

The area around it is great, filled with restaurants and useful stores. I can't imagine anyone giving it anything but an A for that, but the center itself is adequate and no more.

The route to the convention, at least from the north, is so traffic-riddled that it could be mistaken for an enhanced interrogation technique. Maybe HMGS could give out those magic GPSs that sidestep all the traffic.

So other than his obvious super-villain status, exactly what did EP say about the convention that is false?

I guess the bottom line in all of this is wherever the con is held, some will be happy about the location and the venue, others will not.

No venue is perfect.

Looks like the three biggest complaints are the location (VA vs PA), the bathrooms and the noise in the gaming area.

Going by the Host vs the FCC, the Host had one bathroom in the dealer hall, one upstairs in the hotel across from the bar and one downstairs off of the lobby for the dillpickle room, a total of three.

The FCC had one in the dealer hall and two in the lobby of the gaming area, a total of three.

Not sure what the problem is other than the lakes of urine that had to be navigated through.

As far as the noise; sounded like someone let 65,000 hornets into the hall and they were swarming up near the ceiling, not sure what they can do about that, the gaming is set up in one large room with high ceilings, not really designed for the purpose for which it was used at this convention.

As far as the location; from Boston, it took me 9 hours on the way down on Tuesday, 8 hours on the way back on Monday, that was either the norm during the time I traveled or a miracle from the heavens, not sure which, I'll see what happens next year.

Once you get there, it's a snap to park, get around, eat, sightsee, whatever you are in the mood for. Beats the area around the Host and the VFCCC 7 days a week and twice on Sunday.

I am a vendor who sells toy soldiers/wargaming items for a living, so I go where the con is, end of story, so no matter where it ends up, I am there, it's too much of a money maker for me to skip due to urine puddles and hornets.

A convention is what you make of it; I sold a ton of goods, bought some great stuff for my collection, caught some very good games, chatted with loads of great people, met several new customers and had a millon laughs.

I already booked my hotel for next year, so there you go.

So other than his obvious super-villain status, exactly what did EP say about the convention that is false?

He does seem to have a secret identity. But that's OK, I'm sure he just confused himself about knowing whether this board existed or not before he says he knew.

Lots of your guys are old. It happens.

:)

"So other than his obvious super-villain status, exactly what did EP say about the convention that is false?"

Nothing, since it is almost all opinion and not facts, as he claimed. If that's the way he feels it's true for him. Not so much for me and the vast majority of people who have posted their thoughts on TMP and the HMGS Yahoo group.

Civildisobedience, you ask what Early Persian said that was false. I outlined it earlier but since you missed it I will post again.

One of his opinions was that all the bathrooms had two stalls and two urinals. One bathroom did. The other two had three stalls and four urinals each. Perhaps he miscounted.

Another opinion was that the temperature was 104 last week. The hottest day was Wednesday with a high of 96 degrees. Perhaps he was simply exaggerating

He stated that he was unable to sign up for games until 4 p.m. the day of the game and therefore could not sign up for games in the morning. Perhaps someone at the games registration desk told him the wrong information. Maybe he misunderstood the situation.

I had a similar misunderstanding Friday morning. I had already signed up for a game that was starting at noon and was attempting to sign up for games on Saturday. Every number I asked for was not on the board. After a few moments the attendant realized all the games I was trying to sign up for were for the next day and they only had games for Friday currently on the board. He then told me that they would be posting Saturday's games at 4 p.m. When I first heard this I thought to myself "Why would they post Saturday's games at 4 p.m. Saturday afternoon?" But I quickly realized that they would be posting the next day's games at 4 p.m. the day before.

When I came back at 6 p.m. the games for Saturday were on the board and I signed up for a Saturday morning game. The Friday games had been moved to the table. As there was a Friday evening game I wanted to play I asked if I could sign up for a game that was now on the table. I was told that those tickets were now free for anyone to take. I quickly found the game I wanted to play in at 7 p.m.

B+

No trouble finding a parking place any day. Walking distance from the Hampton Inn so I didn't need to park all the time.

Hotel was great.

Restrooms could've used some effort from the FCC staff. I've seen worse at the Host however.

It was noisy in the main hall but I didn't game there. All of my games were with the Hawks.

The FCC center was a good location for me because it cut my drive time by 1.5 hours. Ten hours from Nashville.

Food at the FCC was dicey at best. Other great selections nearby.

There was a good selection of games and the registration crew were very nice.

I definately will come back. Just waiting on the date announcement to reserve a room.

Overall good job by the BOD!

Kirk

Kirk,

Per Joe Swartz on the HMGS forum, the next con is July 18th to 21st. Not sure if he's authoritative, but there were several officers the posted after who did not correct that date.

According to the HMGS Yahoo Group the next Historicon will be July 18th-21st, 2013.

Oops, you beat me to it, Demi!

Considering this was the first time at a new site, I gave it a B+. Good, but room for improvement.

I agree with many of the comments above, both good and bad. Interestingly, I spent MOST of my time at Wally's Basement (as a seller, and (sorry wifey!) a buyer too. Also the dealer area. I was very impressed with the way the organizers set up and ran those two areas.

The good news is most of the negatives can be fixed. The noise in the hall can be mitigated by carpeting or dividers, which the convention center should have or provide. Carpeting, or even a pad, would be a good start. And they could easily hire one or two people with mops to clean up the bathrooms more frequently, and refill the water (although I don;t recommend those activities being done at the same time…)

I myself am grateful that people from the Northeast made the trip. I know it's a long way! For me the very worst part was the traffic on the way down after leaving the DC Beltway, and I work in Virginia! But like many of you, I will also be going back to Lancaster for WBC, and as you probably know from their boards, they have a lot of issues there, too!

Thanks Nazrat & demiurgex!!!

"If you have some sort of health problem which precludes you doing certain things I suggest you plan for that rather than try and force the organization to cater to you. Sorry, but I have little sympathy if you can't walk 100 yards outside."

Sorry "flicking wargamer", I have to agree with "Ditto" that your comment about our handicapped wargaming brothers is out of line.

Let's have a little bit of sympathy for the less fortunate fellow gamers, even if they call the wrong side of the Mason – Dixon line home. :)

> Sorry "flicking wargamer", I have to agree with "Ditto" that your comment about our handicapped wargaming brothers is out of line.

His comment may be, but the FCC is a far better site for handicapped access (being on one level) then the Host and it's multiple levels. There was also a shuttle van running between the hotels and the facility.

1. I don't think either the fans or detractors are "wrong." You can like the food or not based on your tastes. The sound can be ovewhelming or not based on your nervous system. I test having good hearing, but cannot follow conversations in crowded places – therefore the noise was hard on my as a solo gamemaster running 5 games in the main room. Different nervous system or a different schedule changes my experience.
2. Walking distances are also subjective. I rode over 50 miles on gravel trails with my bicycle the week before the con, but my 7 knee operations and 2 foot operations leave me vulnerable to extended walking or standing. I barely left the FCC since I was limping quite badly by the end of the con.
3. There were problems. Failure to address those issues will keep them around. Constructive criticism can lead to a better experience, saying everything was rosy will lock in problems. The Architects of War folks bought padded mats to stand on due to the floors, prohibitive for the main room, though even a thin carpet would help.
4. DC traffic – South on 95 in the late afternoon is pretty much guaranteed to be a mess from Springfield (where you exit the beltway) to Quantico. There are alternate routes that take longer, you can plan your trip to not hit that area during that time, or grin and bear it. They have been working on that area since I was in DC in the late 80s and it never gets better. I suspect the only way it improves is if either 301 or 15 gets upgraded to Interstate as a bypass around the area in general.
I happen to be in the B range for a grade. I had a reasonably successful time as a GM and played in a couple of games. My hearing is back to normal, did not have any foul experiences with the lavatory, but still have iffy knees – had to keep my ride on Monday to 11 miles and well off the pace. What some people were saying would add 4 hours to my drive, going home it was no more than 2.5 and probably less.
Jon

@ Early Persian,

Welcome to TMP, you'll get used to the banter (or whatever you want to call it).

However, your experience at your first Historicon mirrors mine several years ago (which was at the Host). Subsequent experiences get better as you get to know the facility and how things work (or don't).

Personally, I like local/regional conventions better than Historicon, even though they don't attract the volume of vendors as does Historicon.

Where's the rubric???

A –

Only a slight minus due to urinals designed for children and me being 6ft 3" and wearing shorts who ever designed the bathrooms should be made to try and use them without splash back. I gave up on them and used the cisterns and made sure my aim was good and seat up before you ask!!!

Noise was not bad and 5 games in the hall I could hear all I needed to, yes at times I had to strain to listen but this is always going to be an issue with such a large scale event. Even in the smaller rooms it could get noisy. Just certain people rolling dice could make too much noise.

Water station was central but a slight 60 second (maybe 180 second walk) and always had water there.

At no time did I have to wait any length of time for bathroom but I can guess for certain situations it could have been a problem. I did have a room within easy and I mean easy walking distance. The last H Con my bedroom was on site but a lot further away and I had to navigate the warrens.

An excellent event and job / life circumstances willing I will be back as I have so much fun it is worth travelling the across the pond to hang out with some exceptional people who made me very welcome and gave me some great laughs and gaming fun!!!

Thought the venue was Ok and the show was Ok. Unless the show is in Cleveland I am not going to be happy about the time & travel situation, I hate to travel. My biggest gripe was that there was really no location to just sit down with freinds have a drink and just relax. At least the host had the bar and lobby area. Did not go to VF so do not have any idea about that location. As for the gaming as always HMGS the Gamemasters and attendies all put on a hell of a show.
See you next year, maybe!

Carl

Mark, we already have our room at the Homewood booked for next year's Historicon. I hope you can make it over again, mate! Tally hoooooo! 8)=

As one of the Ohio group who decided in favor of Cold Wars instead of Historicon for our yearly group Con after the Baltimore fiasco, I hope that Historicon finds a good home. Historicon was my first Con way back when and I loved the experience and the people. Hopefully it finds a place again that helps bring the fun and excitement of the hobby to new people like it did me.

P.S. Please leave Cold Wars alone, I'm running out of Con's these guys will go to… :-)

Noise was load, but didn't seem much different than FOSE, the big government computer conference in DC.

Think its funny the the southerns cut their drive vs the host by 1-2 hours, but the people from NY add 3-5 hrs.

B

The pros out weighed the cons.

For me I give a :

A for the Staff

B+ for the Building ( nice to be done with all the
stairs ,weird levels ,maze of
rooms ) Needs a bit of work
however .
A+ Hotels

A+ Resturants

A Location ( ie Fredericksburg ) would be a A+ if they
had a big Airport
B+ Games ( could be a bit more and some more for the
con theme- aka eye candy )
A Dealer Hall ( Most of the most popular ,but I always
want more )

Just wanted to thank "civildisobediance" for defending my right to express an opinion on this matter in the face of the pack mentality to the contrary. I have been away from the hobby for twenty years due to work and family obligations and have recently returned so I am not aware of the political undercurrents involved in the move of Historicon from Pennsylvania to Virginia.
However, I do find the lack of civility in public discourse to be disturbing as evidenced by this message board. And to the lawyers out there, yes my review is an opinion, but it is an opinion based upon the facts as I have observed them. Eyewitness accounts, and experiences at this conevention can certainly differ, but there were significant problems that occurred at this convention that needs to be addressed going forward.
After all, I think we all have the same goal. We want to attend Historicon no matter where the location and have a good time.

I give it an "A" but I'd give the cons at the Host and VFCC " A"-s as well (perhaps not Timonium.) I was pleasantly surprised that the only traffic I hit was trying to get out of Philly at 8 am on Friday and the 95 below DC on 95 I got there in less than 4.5 hours. On the way back I left Sunday at 8 am and rocket back in way under 4 hours. I thought the onsite food was worst then the Host, but there were much better options off site as others have mentioned. The Men's rooms just did not have enough equipment. I stayed at the Best Western down the street it was much cheaper then any place I've stayed in Lancaster in July (I've never stayed at the Host.) On the whole, the noise and lighting was the worst of any place (FWIW I thought the host better then VFCC in these two areas .) About half the games I want to play were cancelled, but I cannot see how this was the fault of the site. The lay out was great and there was room to move around (this is assuming that they had attendance like in other years.) Likewise if attendance was close to other years then parking was better than the host. Probably all of us can say this aspect was better or worst then at Host, but it really comes down to what is important to that individual. For example being close to an airport is just not on my list what so ever, but I think FCC was better access. An idiosyncrasy from my list is beer; there was nothing but crap and only in bottles, at the FCC. Fredericksburg has its own micro brewery (Blue & Grey Brewing) and they did not even have Yuengling.

OK well I'm been to every Historicon for the past 12 years and here is my "opinion" (how I feel about it feel free to agree or disagree but won't change how I personally feel about it) Since the big arguement seems to be Fredricksburg versus the Host/Lancaster I'll just rate which I prefer

Distance – FCC. FCC is 1 1/2 hours closer for me and as I have to drive alot for my job anything that saves me road time wins out

Parking – FCC. I left the center several times on the weekend for food runs or whatever and never had issues finding a parking spot. My usual spot in the Host ended up being in the North 40 somewhere and if I had a good spot then I never moved the car for fear of losing it

Hotel – FCC. I was able to secure a hotel room right next to the convention center. The entire time Historicon was at the Host (since 2001 anyway) I've never been able to secure a room there as they were usually booked a year in advance. And I didn't have to navigate the "highway of death" to get to my hotel room. The few times I have stayed at the Host (Cold Wars/Fall In) I was not impressed with the quality of the rooms.

Bathrooms – Host. While the level of cleanliness and odor was pretty much the same (especially by Saturday afternoon) The Host learned to use some of the Female Latrines as temporary Menrooms for the weekend. Something FCC could have done to make it better, although I must say I felt there were more women present and playing games than any years past.

Dealer's Hall – This one's a tie. While I think there were more dealers present at the Host I liked having the Hall seconds away from the games and flea market and I could actually walk through the hall without having to dodge backpacks.

Onsite Food – Tie. Both are about the same, they hit the spot when your hungry/thirsty and don't want to venture out

Offsite Food – FCC. Yes Wegmans helped but also within a 5 minute drive with little to no traffic (once again no highway of death-ie turning left out of the Host!!) was many more food choices and so no long lines at Fudruckers.

Gaming Hall – FCC. Yes there was noise, maybe it's because I spent most of my young life around aircraft engines, but it really didn't bother me. The main reason I personally preferred this was I brought my grandson with me and he was able to play the games he wanted as was I and I was able to either actually see him the entire time or easily take a quick break to go check on him. This meant alot to me but I realize this wouldn't apply to most people

Games- Apples and Oranges. I've had great games at the Host as well as bad ones and cancelled ones. That happens regardless of locations. I do like to be able to register for 2 games per day. There were years where all of my pre-registered games were cancelled and I had to squeak into some. Having 2 per day hopefully means at least one will go. This encourages people to pre-register I think. This was the first convention my grandson has ever been to and he had a blast. He's still talking about it to all his friends…which to me is priceless. But in fairness he probably would have had a great time had it been at the Host as well.

Attendance- Host. Yes there have been more folks at the Host then was at FCC. But in all fairness the economy is quite different than it was when we had those record numbers. I would say the best way to measure is look at attendance from say Fall-In or Cold Wars back in the good years when they were at the Host and what their attendance is now. That would probably be a better comparison. Most (but not all) of my regular "convention" friends (the ones I usually only see once a year) were there so I can't compare to someone who's friends didn't show, but that's happened to me at the Host before as well.

Overall- FCC. I can honestly say I just had a better time at this Historicon than I did the last few years when it was at the Host. I played more games, saw the same number of friends,and bought as much (too much?) stuff as I wanted.

In short unless something comes up unexpected I'll be attending Historicon next year, regardless of where it is, but I enjoyed this year's more than I have in the past.

I'd give it an F, because I didn't go because it was located in some savage region of the CSA.

Now THAT is a statement looking for a fight from someone!

Regarding restrooms at the Host, there are actually more than most people think.

Double G is a great guy, but I'm going to have to correct him on this point. He said:

Going by the Host vs the FCC, the Host had one bathroom in the dealer hall, one upstairs in the hotel across from the bar and one downstairs off of the lobby for the dillpickle room, a total of three.

He's correct about the three he mentioned, but there are also two others. There is a second one off of the main lobby on the same side as the bar. Most people are unaware of it since they don't go that way often, but it's easy to find.

The fifth one, which friends and I call the "SECRET" restroom, is nearby the one just up the short set of stairs outside the Distlefink (what a name!), but down a hallway or two past it. I'm not even sure it's marked other than on the door. It is the cleanest one since so few people are aware of it, well, until now…

So, yes, that's a total of 5 at the Host, but you'll need a map to find them all!

DC traffic moves at the speed limit most of the time? Can we get a DC area poll on that?

During rush hour, traffic grinds to a halt. But that's true of every major metropolitan area. You learn to plan ahead to leave extra time or go around it.

But man, god help you if you try to drive the speed limit on the Beltway when it's not rush hour. (Unless you're in the slow lane.) We don't place in the top three for worst commute in the country for no reason.

Scorpio,

That also applies to certain stretches of the Beltway DURING Rush hour; ones that are going against the main traffic flow and are between the slow areas. I used to (for the better part of 13 years and until this year) drive the "Outer Loop" from the Toll Road (Rte 267) to the Gallows Road exit and even with construction going on, I could go well above the 55 mph speed limit.

Same could be said on most days going in the opposite direction.

So being a local helps a lot in navigating and avoiding traffic around here. Basically I'm agreeing with you…

"But in all fairness the economy is quite different than it was when we had those record numbers."

Razor – I don't argue with a lot of what you said, though my ratings would vary (as opinions do). But the economy argument just doesn't hold water. It's been used and repeated and repeated, but the fact is we're using 2009 Host numbers, and by every economic measure, as bad as things are now, they were at least somewhat worse then. You can argue economy comparing 2005 to 2012, but not when comparing 2009 to 2012. Well, you can argue anything, but the statistics are against it.

Nazrat…

It is Gung Ho…. and I have just booked the hotel in the hope that I can make it again…

It is certainly an easier drive from IAD than the VFCC location.

:)

Lets hope work and wife allow it….

Thanks for the correction on the bathroom situation FCC vs the Host but like you said, now the secret is out as to where they are………;)…..

I used the one across from the dealer hall near the flea market once or twice a day and never had to wait in line for a urinal, no stalls for me, I have a weak stomach and a strong sense of smell, a double whammy………..

And thanks again for taking the time to chat with me regarding your superb Antietam Cornfield game, I appreciate you taking the time after a long day of gaming for you, it was one of the show highlights for me……..

If you ever feel like you want to jump into a late game, we'll keep a spot open for you; give you some reenforcements to run!

I agree with BOb and his dog (not my Bob), move the Painting and tournaments to the Exhibit Hall and put the games elewhere. We (my Bob) were in BallRoom B, carpet, good lighting, not noisy. Though there were a lot of games, we didn't feel crowded.
The Women's bathrooms were fine…sorry guys. But the Men's bothrooms always seem to be pig styes….sorry guys.

Food was barely adequate, but there was so much good food must minutes away, and no Hwy 30 to cross….

We stayed in the Homestead…full refrigerators, stove, dishwashers, etc. What with the daily maid service, I didn't want to go home. (I love staff -- after our first cruise up the Danube, we realized we needed staff….)

A lot of locals and Quanico came (usually one-day only) so I think we balanced out on numbers, but I really missed seeing the old gang from NY and points north.

We'll go back.
C

Dynaman8789,

You commented on my post:
"His comment may be, but the FCC is a far better site for handicapped access (being on one level) then the Host and it's multiple levels. There was also a shuttle van running between the hotels and the facility."

I don't recall ever comparing the two venues (FCC vs Host) for handicapped access.
I simply felt obliged to defend our handicapped fellow wargamers since my father was a disabled WWII vet.

Early Persian

"I do find the lack of civility in public discourse to be disturbing….."

I can't argue with you on that statement. It is surprising we don't see fist fights in the dealer's area during the Con with all of the hostility.

Perhaps this is best settled over a game of Fire + Fury, North vs. South. :)

For the record, I'll be back next year, I made my hotel reservations today.

Thanks a million for the offer John; the only down side to being a dealer at the cons is my game time is limited, so i hope to take you up on your offer at a con soon.

I booked my room yesterday for Historicon 2013, looking forward to it already…………

We'll be there! You just come on by and we'll make sure there is an open seat for you.