"So how was Historicon and give a grade from A to F?" Topic

B+ for me

My first big con, so it was a big highlight.
A) Parking was packed, but I found a spot. Used the bathroom at WaWa down the road.
B) Food smelled very good. Saw mac/cheese being wheeled around and hot dogs smelled good. But, I did not eat anything.
C) Seemed like everyone was having a great time.
D) Main hall was loud. But, I use to go to baseball card shows and the same thing would happen. Lot's of excited people!

The only "negative" I would say my perception of the lack of vendors. Remember, this is my first ever big con. I thought he dealer room would be oozing with vendors I never heard of. Theose there did a great job. Cotton Jim, Old Glory,Wargames Terrain, and Arcitects of War get special shout outs for the engagement factor. I bought from each one too! So was the vendors off from prior shows? I ask because I just don't know.

A-
(P.S. I flew in from Houston on Friday at 1 A.M. and only had 1 hour to spend on Saturday)

Overall = C+/B-
Noise:
Exhibit Hall A was a deafening roar. Too much of the gaming in one bad room. DBA, FOW and most of the other gaming was too much to all be together. The other rooms were OK but a little dark.

Food:
Onsite food blew chunks. It was too expensive for them to serve luke warm crap. Offsite selections couldn't be beat but I go to a con to be at the con. I don't go to a con to leave every mealtime to find a place to eat. That takes time away from why I'm there in the first place.

Vendor Hall:
It was nice to see it full of vendors. I make lists of goodies to buy between each con and take them along with me. I like to support the guys and gals that pay a big chunk of the bill.

Layout:
I really liked that everything was close together. However, even with the smaller con that Hcon has become, things could bottleneck in the big gaming room.

Hotels:
Nice selection and quantity. I didn't know for sure that I'd be able to go until a week or so just before. I was still able to get a room in the Mall complex. Shuttle bus helped since I took my family and they took my car!

Misc.:
I agree with the comments about the restrooms being dirty and too few. The water stations were too few and not kept filled. The A-C was decent all but one day, but then VA can do that to you mid-summer.

Probably a C/C-*

* rated compared to other conventions. Obviously, even a bad wargaming convention is a A+ next to most things.

Good:

Layout
Offsite food
Onsite hotels
Value of offsite hotels
Relative newness of facility
Hey, it's a wargaming convention
Beach Fries truck
High number of cancelled games

Cons:

Location
Onsite food
Dirty bathrooms, inadequate water, etc.
Worst folding chairs I've ever seen. Seriously.
Distance/convenience of offsite hotels
Noise (sounds whiny, but it was really difficult to hear)

I thought both the AC and light (barely) were adequate, though many people did not.

"With Wegman's nearby and "Hoagiefest" at WaWa, didn't bother with the facility's food."

Probably the reason for the "restroom issue".

WaWa…Eat here…get Sheetz.

So, how are the salads at Wegman's and WaWa?

R

Overall B
I really liked the location being around all the historical battlefields. It was only about 30 minutes farther than Lancaster for us driving from Ohio. I GM'ed a colonial game Friday night and lost my voice doing it. The noise issue and lack of clean bathrooms are my biggest complaint and therefor cannot rate it an A. I think these issues along with the other ones pointed out here can be addressed and fixed. I would like to come back; but depending on if these issues are or aren't fixed I may just come as a gamer and not GM there.

What a clever play on words.

A for the geographic location. I go to game and to see new sites. Restaurants were everywhere. Some very nice ones in old Fredericksburg. This place is surrounded by history. I learned so much at this con. Seeing three battlefields at one location…nice! I even missed a couple. And the national U.S.Marine Museum at Qantico…wow!

B for the venue itself. The noise was bad and I agree about the restroom situation. I think that could be easily solved with a little more focus from maintenance.

A- for the dealer room. It was nice but there were a few missing. I didn't find eveything I was looking for.

I will return!

A-

As has been said already:

Noise was a problem in main gaming area at times.

Also hated the flimsy chairs!

Onsite food was meh, but many options nearby.

Staff (both con and site) were great!

Will return next year (God willing and the creek don't rise!)

C
The inadequate bathrooms and noise have been mentioned. Size and layout of the dealer and gaming area was fine. Convention staff were also excellent.
The major problem was a lack of a comvention center hotel and a central bar/restaurant so that one can meet old friends or make new ones. I talked to the city development department about the sad story of the hotel developer pulling out.
A shuttle that operated more frequently is a real need.
I and a lot of guys my age (been to almost all of the Historicons)come to the event to see people, meet an author or two and buy stuff. I game at home every week, so I rarely get in a game.
The inability to attract authors was disapointing. I was told that it was because of the lack of compted rooms.
The downtown restaurants in old town were very good and being on the battlefields was excellent.

I'll give it an A- or B+ depending on what goggles I have on. Caveat, I worked on staff, so people will invariably say I have an agenda, but I've been pretty brutally honest elsewhere: link and I didn't pull any punches. Most of the issues I had a personal gripe with have been addressed in this thread. I'm pretty private about going to the bathroom and I didn't enjoy the situation with the restrooms at all-- I had to perform a contortion worth of the Bolshoi Ballet the one time I had to use the stalls. So for me the bathrooms were the worst issue-- add to this the puzzling placement of urinals, favoring either a midget or a porn star, but not any of us in-between fellas, if you know what I mean. I bet we're not the only group that has experienced "bad aim" problems with those urinals.

The noise was really really bad in peak hours-- repeat, peak hours, say Saturday night form 7 to 11PM. I was in Howard Whitehouse's CHAOS IN CAIRO game with my son Garrett (his first time playing at a HISTORICON, by the way, he LOVED IT!). Howard's game featured around 30 players. I have 40% hearing loss on the right hand side, and often I could see Howard saying something important across the table but I couldn't hear a word he was saying. It's annoying saying "what? What?" all the time. There's some tricks we could try, like putting dividers in the main hall, and adding acoustic baffling. It might help.

There were things that went wrong that HMGS just didn't have any control over.. I'm particularly disappointed with Paypal this convention, which had many more transmission errors this year than previous years. We had more than one attendee that got sent into registration with a printed out Paypal receipt, only to find that he wasn't in the system anywhere. When that happens, people are going to be ed off at HMGS, and there just isn't anything we can do except bust ass to try to get the guy into his events with as little fuss and bother as possible.

So, bathroom, noise, computer glitches and registration software, we've all talked about those. I agree with all of you on this. We need to make some changes and the convention center needs to facilitate the big ones for us if they want happy customers. WITH ALL THAT BEING SAID, I don't know what dynamic was in place, but I had a hell of a time. There wasn't that "same as it ever was" feeling about this HISTORICON, and I (and many others) LOVED the location of the center in that complex of 100+ restaurants. Not bad at all! The one thing I miss from the Host is the central location of the bar, where everyone congregates. We were decentralized, and the hotel bars closed early. Now that really sucks! It's not even as if I like drinking that much, I just like the hanging out and BSing time, it's the best part of any convention.

So, yeah, I'm optimistic. I think the Convention Location committee did a pretty good job here, but the Con Ops needs to pay serious heed to the elements that were detracting from enjoyment and make sure we negotiate about these in the future.

Just my .02, worth what you paid for it.

Walt

D for Disappointment

This past Historicon was a tremendous disappointment. As a past attendee of Historicon conventions, I have come to appreciate and expect certain amenities at the chosen venue, such as adequate parking, bathrooms that can accommodate the masses, decent food at the convention site, adequate air conditioning, gaming space where the noise decibel is reasonable, scheduled games that can fill my time over three plus days, organization where players are notified of cancelled games in advance, and accessible location by car. This past convention fell short on all accounts.
While I can understand the local gamers rating the convention an "A" because they have a myopic view of what occurred, the rest of us have to take a reality check. So lets examine the facts.

Inadequate Parking. When I registered at the Fredericksberg Hospitality Hotel, I was handed a shuttle schedule. When I inquired about this, I was told in no uncertain terms that there is very limited parking at the Expo site. This was, in fact, true. Unless you parked before 9 a.m., a parking spot could not be found unless you were lucky.

Disgusting Bathrooms. There were an insufficient number of bathrooms and the bathrooms were too small. There were only two bathrooms, one in the main hall, and one by registration, that was open all day and night. There was a bathroom in Wally's basement but only during the scheduled flea market time. Each bathroom had only two stalls and two urinals. It was not uncommon to wait 10 minutes to use a stall. By noon time the bathrooms were sufficiently unusable.

No decent Food. The food concessions basically served hamburgers, franks, and pretzels. This is great for teenagers and children but what about adults? In addition, I was able to purchase a turkey leg instead which was dry, and baked beans that tasted like it came out of a can. And the purchase of a water bottle for $2.50 USD? Really?

Some praise walking to nearby Wegmans. That's great if you are capable of leaving the convention site. But what about the physically challenged, or someone suffering from a heart condition who could not walk in the 104 degree temperature that we had last week? What about the tournament player or the gamer that does not have time to leave the campus and forage for food?


Inadequate Air conditioning. It was warm and humid at the convention site until Friday night. Unfortunately, some of us arrived on Wednesday night for registration and open gaming, and played all day Thursday, and Friday morning.

Too Noisy in Gaming Space. Games played in the large cavernous complex had noise decibels that were totally unacceptable. It was hard to concentrate, let alone hear your fellow gamer above the clamor.

Poor Organization and Too many Cancelled Games. I had preregistered on-line for games in which at least 50% were cancelled. Some cancellations were posted, others were not. I was left waiting at gaming tables, with fellow gamers, waiting for a GM that never arrived. Some cancellations for Thursday were posted Wednesday night, and when I inquired about replacing them, I was told I could not register until 4 p.m. the next day! If your next game is scheduled for the evening, then what are you supposed to do for the entire day?

However, I was lucky. I spoke to gamers who registered by mail and were not enrolled in any games for the entire weekend!!! Some of these gamers came from other states such as Texas, Michigan, Washington, and Minnesota.

Location. The convention site is located just south of Washington D. C. The traffic into and leaving D.C., as well as the 30 mile ride to Fredericksberg was a mess. I was driving 10 miles per hour on I-95. With the current location, many of us from the North East will be reluctant to drive. For some of us, the train is not an option because we are lugging miniature soldiers with us, as well as terrain. Also, carrying purchases back by train would be impossible.

Historicon has always been the jewel in the crown of HMGS. That jewel has been tarnished.
It needs to be restored to the same level of brilliance of past conventions. Many gamers have stated that that they will not be returning to Historicon if it remains at a the current venue. I concur. If it does remain at the current location, those of us will be voting a resounding "No" with our feet. And the message will be loud and clear.

This was, in fact, true. Unless you parked before 9 a.m., a parking spot could not be found unless you were lucky.

That is incorrect. I drove from the Hilton Garden Inn (I had a car full of terrain and miniatures to setup for my games) Thursday, Friday and Saturday all after 9AM. No luck was needed to find a parking space at around 10AM. Not sure what you're on about with that although it could have filled up on Saturday after 10AM I guess. But unless there was a rush into the building before 9AM and then out before 10AM what you posted about parking being tight at that time I think is incorrect.

I give it a "B" which is a good grade considering it's a new site with new convention staff. I'm impressed everything went as well as it did.

Historicon has always been the jewel in the crown of HMGS. That jewel has been tarnished.
It needs to be restored to the same level of brilliance of past conventions. Many gamers have stated that that they will not be returning to Historicon if it remains at a the current venue. I concur. If it does remain at the current location, those of us will be voting a resounding "No" with our feet. And the message will be loud and clear.

Seems to be a very minority opinion.

Agree with the Gonk. Seem the majority of the reports across the net are generally pretty good. Seems the three issues are:

Seating and the big box feel of the main hall.
Bathrooms. (I suspect the center does not understand that folks come and stay all day)
and other comfort areas that need to be better understood by the convention center staff and let us hope the convention key staff and convention center do a face to face AAR down the road sooner than later while the observations are still fresh in their minds.

Pro active measures can address most of not all of these concerns. porta potties are not out of the question.

VR
James Mattes

Never any lines for the bathroom, just cleanliness as the issue. Found a parking space throughout the day, every day. Little bit of exageration going on upthread.
M

"Seems to be a very minority opinion."

I wouldn't say that. It looks like maybe a thousand attendees have bailed since the last Hcon at the Host. I am not disrespecting anyone's opinion, but a few dozen people (mostly living close to the FCC) posting do not invalidate all of those who voted with their feet and stayed home.

I went, and I agree that the center is perfectly adequate for Historicon. I'm not saying the center is bad just because I think the move was a mistake. But my number one gripe about Historicon 2012 was the fact that most of my wargaming friends from 20+ years of conventions weren't there. You can say what you want, but the move alienated a LOT of people. Call it just a few who post about it on here, but it is true nonetheless.

James, I never heard you suggest that the Host's bathroom issues could be solved with a few porta potties. Maybe it should have been "Get Porta Potties Now!"

I give it a B. Parking was not an issue for me, nor was the I-95 traffic. Perhaps I was just lucky. I live 525 miles from Fredericksburg and got there in 9 hours with stops. Lancaster is 400 miles away, but I did not find the extra 125 miles to be a burden.

I found it very easy to get into games, and all my friends were in attendance. I made many new friends also. I found the bathrooms no worse than the Host to be perfectly honest, and I did not have to wait more than a few seconds to use them.

My only complaint was the noise. I had a difficult time with it and after awhile of "yelling" across the game tables, I had a headache. The games in the carpeted rooms were more enjoyable. I would go there again.

I thought I would drop a few notes about the show in response to many of the comments I have seen on here, and the fact that supporters have been called myopic for thinking the facility/location is very good. I did spend most of the time during vendor hours at my booth, so my observations take into account what I saw/learned.

I have noted some folks commenting about parking. I never saw the entire lot parked up at the show, and noted parking all day long at the neighboring hotel (when I dropped back to my room for something). Not sure if the complaint is that there were no reserved spaces to cater to the attendees or what. Not sure I can agree that parking is an issue. Besides, the walks from any of the attached hotels are very reasonable in my opinion, and I have knee issues.

In regards to food choices, I found the food in the vendor area to be very decent. I had the ribs twice, a pulled pork sandwich and a pulled chicken sandwich. While not 4 stars, it was good and reasonably priced. I actually found that the ribs were decent and very enjoyable. I did not eat the food from the other vendors as I it made no sense to leave the vendor space for lunch.

I did not really have any bathroom issues and never waited in the evening more than 30 seconds for a place to go. During the day, the restrooms in the vendor/flea market area were open to the vendors which was nice. They were clean for most of the show except when the flea market was open when I noticed they became much dirtier and unkept (must mean the sloppy users are not vendors…….8-) ).

I keep hearing about the traffic coming down I-95 and going through all of the major cities. I used to travel this route for many years when living in Richmond, plus a drive a lot for my regular job. I have learned so many ways to avoid I-95 and NJ whenever I drive to the northeast. It seems like most folks cannot even entertain the idea of driving from the northeast without using I-95. There are a lot of options. Break out a map or map quest to look at other options (navigation systems are not always your friend).

I have found that a combination of roads can be used to the west to avoid the NJ/Philly/DE/MD corridor. These include heading west on a number of interstates in NY/PA such as I-84, I-78, I-80, I-76. You can then hit I-83 to Baltimore, or continue a little bit further west to US-15 and take that South (and also west of DC). The latter route will help you avoid all of the I-95 traffic, but you will have to travel on it for 1 exit to cross the river in Fredericksburg. The westerly routes will add a few miles and can be longer (if your I-95 trip is event free), but you get to miss the possible problems, heavy traffic and driving stress from traveling in the heavy traffic.

Overall, I really like the new location. Sure there are opportunities for improvement, but the site really works. I like the location much more than Valley Forge.

"This was, in fact, true. Unless you parked before 9 a.m., a parking spot could not be found unless you were lucky."

I agree with Admiral Yi that this statement is not correct. I got there every day after 10 and found a spot each day. The fact that many people parked at the nearby hotels where they were staying helped. Also, the area of the Wegmans parking lot closest to the Convention Center was full, and the remainder of it was not. That tells you something.

Oh, could I just take a second to thank the event organizers, committees and HMGS staff that did a fantastic job. Thank you.

"While I can understand the local gamers rating the convention an "A" because they have a myopic view of what occurred, the rest of us have to take a reality check. So lets examine the facts."

I love how anybody who gives the con a sub-par rating is RIGHT, and all the others who liked it (and acknowledge it's faults) are "local" and "myopic". How utterly absurd. I'm from NC and my vision is fine, thank you very much! And your "facts" are mostly opinions…

1. I walked back and forth to my hotel all weekend, and morning till night there were ALWAYS empty spaces to be had in the lot between the Homewood Suites and the Convention Center. ALWAYS.

2. Yes, I agree the bathrooms weren't adequate and were indeed messy. But I used them all weekend and NEVER had to wait to get in. NEVER. Also, in any HMGS con I have been to (Lancaster, Gettysburg, Timonium) the bathrooms have had problems. Isn't it time we start to consider it may not be the bathrooms, but the USERS? 8)=

3. Did not eat at the con so I can't say. But I have read as many (like Doug's comment above) saying the sandwiches were pretty good, so again, NOT a fact. Only opinion.

4. Apart from Wednesday night when the doors had been open all day for vendor unloading I was never uncomfortable at all. It wasn't hot outside except for Wednesday night, too. The mist and occasional heavier rain kept the outside temperatures down. As I said before, I was constantly walking back and forth to my room all weekend so I experienced the weather firsthand a lot.

5. No game I wanted to play in, or any of mine were cancelled. Nobody I know had any cancelled either. I'm sorry you had such bad luck! The con cannot control cancellations in any way. I agree that they should try to get that info out there more efficiently, though.

6. I came from down south in NC so I had no traffic issues on 95. I have heard some from northern areas did, but as many have said they had no delays at all. Luck of the draw, I guess. Over the years driving in to Lancaster I got caught in any number of bad traffic jams so that isn't exclusive to this location.

As far as your statement "Many gamers have stated that that they will not be returning to Historicon if it remains at a the current venue." I take that with a huge grain of salt. I saw these sort of declarations many times in the discussions of where H'con should go, and the con still had plenty of gamers show up. And to counter it, many more have said they WILL return. I have no evidence either, so it's just as valid a point! 8)=

I went to this con expecting it to be a trifle rough since it was in a new location. It was. But it wasn't bad at all, and I had a fabulous time with virtually nothing getting in the way of my fun. The people I wanted to see were there (even guys from the UK), there were tons of excellent games, the Dealer's Room was as good as ever, and I sold a crapload of stuff in the flea market. Yes, the numbers were possibly down a bit from last year, but that is common for a first con in a new location. Bottom line is they WANT us there, so I have no doubt they will adjust things for our comfort for next year. Then we will see if Historicon will stay there (which I hope it will) or make yet another move and possibly lose attendees again.

Lastly, as much as I enjoyed all the Historicons at The Host I hope it never returns there. Leave the other two there and the big one in this location. It will grow again to be the absolute biggest, as it always did after any of it's other moves.

Since some of the criticism is being played down, I thought I would voice my opinion as well.

I grade the event a solid C+ with all things considered.

Some easy A's being thrown around here despite some well documented negatives above. I do not feel it was perfect, nor do I feel it was a disaster. I did have fun which is hard not to do when I'm engaged in my favorite hobby.

The attendance drop does concern me greatly. Without much effort I know of about 20+ good friends that did not attend this years show.

If the attendance drop is verified, my grade will slip further to a C-.

TRU

"I love how anybody who gives the con a sub-par rating is RIGHT, and all the others who liked it (and acknowledge it's faults) are "local" and "myopic". How utterly absurd. I'm from NC and my vision is fine, thank you very much! And your "facts" are mostly opinions…"

And everyone who posts a criticism is a whiner or a baby who doesn't want to drive an extra three hours. It is, unfortunately, how these threads develop.

I posted what I felt was an honest review, and even though I dislike the geographic location I did not trash the facility. I really haven't seen too many posts from locals similarly holding the location to task for faults.

Let's be real for ten seconds. The site is far from perfect and it is far from terrible. Anyone posting straight As or straight Fs is pushing a viewpoint, not providing a review.

FYI, regarding the parking, we never had any problem finding a space. It looked pretty full Saturday, but we found a space in a minute.

However, the Host's parking was more than adequate for attendance levels of 2,700 too, so if that turns out to be the number, a fair comparison would factor in 800 or 900 more attendees, with is probably 400 or 500 more cars. I suspect that would be a problem, just as it was at the Host. VFCC wins the parking war among the venues.

My rating is a very solid B+

Facility is very good but needs some tweaking for noise, etc.
Hotels – the Homewood was excellent – an A+.
Nearby restaurants – best selection I've seen anywhere.

I know two vendors well, both of whom liked the new facility and were satisfied with their weekend's business.

I travel from CT and next year I need to find a better route around Baltimore and DC with less traffic jams.

I don't know where Early Persian went. Surely he wasn't at the same con we were. Have fun playing by yourself, EP.

Concession food was pretty bad
Bathroom situation was pretty bad
Noise in main game room was awful
A/C was having issues keeping up with humidity

And…..of course…..HMGS LOST MY FREAKING PRE-REG AGAIN!!!!!

Still had lots of fun, though

Eighth time now that I pre-upped and ended up with no games.
YAY ME!!!!!!

Civil, you did post an honest review and I saw very few (if any) comments labeling you as any of those things. I certainly had no problem with what you wrote.

As far as "easy As"-- I gave it an A because I had the same wonderful time I ever had at either of the other two locations. Having the best hotel room I've ever had at a con with everything so easily accessible under one roof next door handily trumped messy bathrooms and those crummy chairs in the main game room (which I only had to use in one game). I didn't think the noise any worse than the Distlefink (it's ALL loud-- gamers, don't you know). I have ALWAYS come home hoarse from cons I have GMed at so that wasn't new either. All my games were fortunately in Ballroom E and that area was fantastic.

I had NO other complaints. So-- A and not so easy. The place is not perfect and I never said so. But for the first year, with a brand new convention director and staff it leaves me with a lot of hope for even better in the future.

The Fred Expo folks need to visit this company: link

And they're an easy drive, located in Richmond!

It will be interesting to see what options are available for this facility to mitigate the noise issues. There are a lot of folks that will have to get involved with any changes and improvments (even temporary) for this type of facility (insurance, fire marshall, code enforement etc). I am uncertain what type/design is present for the fire protection sprinkler system in the large halls. It is possible that any accoustical hangings could affect system performance and may not be possible. Just saying noise reduction efforts are not a slam dunk just because we want it.

Oh, I'm not even thinking noise abatement is a slam dunk. It is just fervently wished for.

Nazrat,

I wasn't invalidating your right to give the con an A. I just meant there were a lot of sparse reviews giving As with very little meat to them. But, of course, someone can give a heartfelt A as well.

"I don't know where Early Persian went. Surely he wasn't at the same con we were. Have fun playing by yourself, EP."

Why make an obnoxious comment about someone because they criticized aspects of the convention? The review he posted was lengthy and detailed, and every issue he addressed was mentioned by numerous other posters. EP may have considered these to me more impactful on his convention than you might, but why does he have less right to this opinion than Nazrat does to give the event an A?

Also, did he say he didn't have any fun at all or did he say that he was disappointed? I was also disappointed. I go into Historicon with some pretty high expectations, and over the years, most have been incredible. So to say that it was disappointing is not to say there was no enjoyment to be had.

This was my first Historicon and since I have no comparison I will not give a grading. The sole reason I attended this year was because the convention was held in Fredericksburg and I live in Virginia. Now that I have experienced an HMGS convention I will certainly return to Fredericksburg for Historicon next year and may even travel to Pennsylvania for the other HMGS conventions.

As I took taxi and shuttle rides to and from the convention center I cannot comment on the parking situation other than to say that I never heard anyone complaining the entire weekend about a lack of parking.

I never had to wait in line for a stall or a urinal but there certainly were some sanitary issues in the bathrooms. I think the staff could have done a better job of cleaning the facilities but I also think the attendees could have peed on the floor a bit less. As the urinals were a bit low I was experiencing a bit of splash-back on my legs so it's not surprising that there were puddles around the urinals. What I couldn't understand was why there was so much pee on the floors of the stalls. Maybe there were a lot of pee-shy people who were unwilling to use the urinals. Thankfully I only had to use the stalls twice during the three and a half days I was there. I'm sure anyone who has been to a football game, concert, or some sort of convention with thousands of men in attendance knows that the bathrooms are going to be gross no matter how many there are or how large they are.

As for the food I think it was adequate. I mostly ate when I was away from the convention center but I did get a couple hamburgers and a turkey leg dinner from the concessions. While it certainly wasn't fine dining it was what you would expect from a convention center. I have no complaints in that department.

I only played one game in the main gaming area but I did walk around and check out different games when I wasn't involved in other games. There was certainly a constant din but I didn't have any trouble hearing my fellow gamers. That said I do think a few dividers would help the situation and make the main gaming hall a bit more pleasant. The chairs in the main gaming hall were a bit uncomfortable and I'm sure some of the larger gentlemen in attendance may have been scared of catastrophic collapse.

I spent most of my gaming time in one of the ballrooms. While the lighting wasn't great the chairs were certainly comfortable and the noise level was low. I was able to sign up for all the games I wanted to play and experienced no cancellations although there was one game I wish had been cancelled.

I thought the vendors hall was well set up and well represented. I wandered around a little bit every day seeing new things each time. It took every bit of restraint I had to not just start purchasing willy-nilly each time I went in there. Instead I made a list and waited until Sunday morning when I brought a backpack. Then I descended on a few vendors like a mercenary, made my purchases, filled my backpack, and almost got out of there before spending too much, almost.

I only went into the flea market once but that was certainly enough. While I did buy a few books from a guy on the extreme cheap the majority of the stuff I saw seemed to be more or less junk. One guy was selling packs of miniatures for twice the price that the manufacturer sells them for. But I guess that since the manufacturer was not represented in the vendor hall this guy was providing a valuable service for the convention attendees.

The latest I stayed was Friday night when I was there until 1:15 a.m. The bar I was getting most of my drinks from was still open when I left and as the laws in Virginia state that all drinks must be finished by 2:00 a.m. I'm not sure how one could really complain about the bars closing early. But I guess the situation may have been different Thursday and Saturday nights or if the bar closest to your table closed early.

All in all I had a great time and am looking forward to next year in Fredericksburg with a few improvements.

I would like to end by challenging Early Persian to a few of his assertions about the convention center especially since it appears to me that he started his TMP account today just to complain about the convention.

Early Persian states that each of the bathrooms had only two stalls and two urinals. While this is true of the bathroom near registration I believe the bathroom in the main hall had three stalls and four urinals. As for the bathroom in the flea market I never used it but the floor plan shows three stalls and four urinals.

He asks the question: what is someone suffering from a heart condition to do when they cannot walk in the 104 degree temperature that we had last week? On which day was the temperature 104 degrees in Fredericksburg? Here are the highs for each day of the convention: Wednesday 96 degrees; Thursday 93 degrees; Friday 80 degrees; Saturday 72 degrees; Sunday 81 degrees.

He states that when his game for Thursday was cancelled Wednesday night he was not able to sign up for another game until 4 p.m. the following day. The way I understand how they were doing their system was that they had tickets on the board behind the registration desk for that day's gaming that could be signed up for at any time. At 4 p.m. they posted games for the next day on the board. They then took the tickets for that day and placed them on the table and these were free for anyone to take.

His complaint about traffic on I-95 being a mess is certainly valid but there is an easy solution to such a problem. Never leave home without a map or a navigation device. One can easily find alternative routes with less traffic if one takes a few minutes to do so.

My guess is that Early Persian started his account today to complain about the convention being held in Fredericksburg and drum up support to move it back to Pennsylvania. As with a lot of people Early Persian is likely resistant to any change and wants everything in his life to be familiar and comfortable.

Perhaps The Host in Pennsylvania is a nicer facility. I've only seen their website so I don't know one way or the other which facility is better. All I know for sure is that HMGS must have had their reasons for moving the convention to Fredericksburg. Maybe the Fredericksburg site suits their purposes better. Maybe they will one day move the convention back to Pennsylvania. If they do I will likely make the slightly longer trip and try to do as little complaining as possible.

"My guess is that Early Persian started his account today to complain about the convention being held in Fredericksburg and drum up support to move it back to Pennsylvania. As with a lot of people Early Persian is likely resistant to any change and wants everything in his life to be familiar and comfortable."

Is it necessary to be condescending and assume that anyone who didn't see the true wisdom of FCC as a location is "resistant to change?" Should Early Persian respond and call you a homer who will say anything to try and keep the convention at FCC? Certainly the idea that a "navigation device" is going to allow one to find an "easy solution" around I-95 and DC area traffic (not to mention NY traffic, NJ turnpike traffic, Philly traffic, and Baltimore traffic) seems to me to be without basis and offered for no reason other than to seemingly discredit a negative offered by some people.

Of course, it's not actually conceivable that someone could actually just think that PA is a better location or that after 20 years in one location the convention built an attendee base in that area.

If you want to post an across the board positive review go ahead and do it. But you don't need to take shots at someone just because they don't agree with your glowing assessment.

Anyone for going back to the Penn-Harris? ;)

Civildisobedience, I sincerely apologize for offending your delicate sensibilities but if you read my post I said that I was willing to travel to Pennsylvania for HMGS conventions in the future. I was merely pointing out that Early Persian joined TMP today and was attempting to point out where his so-called facts were wrong. He's lucky to have a friend like you to defend him.

Ok, I was there of every day. Never had to wait at a bathroom and they were cleaner than the host. I'm in my late 50's so I use the bathrooms quit often.
Some complained about parking. They were smoking something. I came and went several times including lunch on Saturday and never had a problem parking and my last place was first spot three rows from the door at 1300 on Saturday. Can't speak on the food. I've never eaten at any of the conventions.
Oh, it was hot on Thrusday, but Fridan and Saturday were in the 80's so I don't know where this 104 came from.

Jeesss Civildisobedience, Are you a politician by chance ? Not sure I've ever seen someone work so hard to further a cause .

P.S. Please dont type another long dissertation . We get it ,you can form complete sentances and punctuate .

Parking was never a problem- most people did not realize there was an entire parking lot in the back that was hardly being used and a completely empty parking lot behind that. My show trailer sat alone in it all weekend:)

The Host isn't a nicer facility, just a different one. Personally I thought the parking at FEC was far better. The Host has many nice features, but I found just as many pros to Fredericksburg – one particular bonus for me was the opportunity to observe the games was far easier on my downtime as they weren't stuffed into a dozen little side areas.

The food was far better because the enormous variety nearby. Yes, maybe you don't want to leave the convention area. OK, that's your decision. It doesn't impact my opinion in the slightest. I not only didn't have trouble finding parking when I first came, I was able to find parking when I returned from lunch. I also purchased needed supplies at Office Depot and Hobby Lobby that were within 2 mins away.

There's some valid concerns. But the potential for growth here seems tangible, and considering 2 of the 3 cons are still being run in Lancaster I have a hard time understanding the acrimony.

The level of rhetoric is truly impressive. No, it wasn't 104 degrees. No, parking wasn't a problem for the vast majority of people. Yes, there were some growing pains, and yes, the number of attendees might be down in the first year of a new venue. Yes, more people will be exposed to the hobby and convention because of this change, and yes, that's good for everyone involved.

B-

Bathrooms and Noise (bathrooms will be a serious issue if attendance goes up).

Hotels good, parking good, food good off site (but not a big deal to get to Wegmans at least, without moving the car). Some issue with maze like layout, but really no worse than the Host, and much shorter than VFCC even if you knew the secret tunnel.

Personal note, the drive will suck for me from Boston, 11 – 13 hours (depending on traffic). I can get home from the Host in 7-8 hours, meaning, I can close the dealer hall on Sunday, and be home to work on Monday, not an option from this location. I can fly or take the train, but then I come as a punter, and just play, since I can't carry a lot of gear. I normally run a number of games at the con.

Staff did good, within the normal problems of a new site.

Noise could be addressed by the site, carpet or ceiling noise dampening. Toilets are a serious issue, without remodeling, I don't see a fix for this.

I'd shoot myself before I was a politician.

I just didn't think there was any reason to be obnoxious to a guy who comes on here and posts a negative, but obviously lengthy and complete, review.

He just didn't like the place. I doubt he's an evil operative from the Host.

There's no acrimony on my part. He's just a little more strident and doom and gloom filled about the gripes that many people had. Including myself. I am sure the BoD appreciates the negative with the positive, I know I would. It helps with focus and plannng for next time.

I thought Early Persian rather spoiled the credibility of his review by his references to the golden days of previous Historicons, which he recalls as being held in Shangri-La.

"Historicon has always been the jewel in the crown of HMGS. That jewel has been tarnished. It needs to be restored to the same level of brilliance of past conventions."

Right. Because the Lancaster Host is a shining model of a venue, once you've walked there from your parking spot in New Jersey, negotiated the multi-levels of stairs and got lost a few times finding your way around the bizarre layout. It's adequate for a smaller con.

FCC isn't perfect by any means, and it's a lot farther from my home. But I'd rate it a B+, because I've been to many worse venues, including the Host. Did I ever tell you about the hotel where I had to carry terrain up in the service elevator through the kitchen? THAT was a bad venue.

And I'd rate my weekend experience an A, because playing games with friends from all over the world is far more important than whether the chairs are comfy and the snack food is an epicurean delight.

And I'd rate my weekend experience an A, because playing games with friends from all over the world is far more important than whether the chairs are comfy and the snack food is an epicurean delight.

Plus, you got to be Tesla. On Mars! That's added value right there.

I did indeed get to portray Nikola Tesla and his electro-magnetic robot force, and that weighs more than the unfortunate need to avoid a puddle of pee in the bathroom.

Note that wargamers seem to be able to provide that puddle o' pee experience wherever they gather en masse. I have no idea why this is.

If your biggest complaint was that your 20 friends did not show up then I suggest you guys all meet near your house to game. If there is such contingent that is so determined to not cross the PA line then there obviously is enough of a following to hold a convention in the NY/NJ area. If not at the same time as Historicon, how about June or August. The biggest move north screamers can be in charge. I would love to see the cost breakdown for food, travel, lodging, and venue space. You can even wave the HMGS banner if you like. Call it Historicon North. If you space it right you will get all the same vendors. Heck, some of us southern homers might come check it out too. All your buddies who are afraid to drive through DC can make it.

There are plenty of go arounds. Half the map sites on the internet will give you options to try, with time estimates given current traffic conditions.

Unless you are going to somehow convince Delaware to give up its taxing of everyone driving through it there will be a traffic backup there. If you decide to drive through a major metropolitan area during rush hour there will be traffic there. Otherwise DC traffic moves at or above the speed limit most of the time. Can't control tourists who run off the road while reading a map. Happens from time to time.

If you have some sort of health problem which precludes you doing certain things I suggest you plan for that rather than try and force the organization to cater to you. Sorry, but I have little sympathy if you can't walk 100 yards outside. Maybe summer conventions are not for you. There are two other HMGS conventions you could check out. One is in the snow usually.

If you can't wait 20 seconds to pee perhaps you need to plan better. That was about the longest I waited. Better aim would do a lot to fix the bathroom cleanliness issue. Perhaps HMGS could invest in some paper targets to put in the commodes. Maybe they need to ban ads in front of the urinals as they are too distracting and spoil gamers' aim.

This was my first Historicon, so I don't have any direct comparative experience with other facilities. I am a regular at other cons though.

Parking. We never had any problems at all on any of the days. Even if the lot was full, there is parking adjacent at Wegmans.

Food. Looked OK, but didn't try it. Wegmans was too good and too close. Prices for drinks were in line with most conventions/events.

Chairs. Very flimsy, and was worried that they could collapse.

AC. It did seem to struggle at times on Thursday/Friday, although it was stupid hot outside. By Saturday it was fine.

Staff. Always friendly and helpful.

Noise. Pretty bad. Couldn't hear my opponent across the table from me and had to walk over to hear him. This could be improved with some baffling, curtains or partitions.

Floor. Oh my poor aching feet. Bare concrete.

Toilets. Too few, and not cleaned often enough. No long waits, but often there was a short line. To aleviate things, they could have turned one of the ladies into a gents.

Dealer room. Looked good. Easy access and boothes were not too crushed together. Space to browse and to navigate.

Travel. Drove from Indianapolis, so wheteher it was in PA, Baltimore or Fredricksburg, it was going to be a haul. I liked being so close to the battlefields, and was able to visit 3 of them on the Thursday. It was slow going near DC, but other than that it was fine.