"So how was Historicon and give a grade from A to F?" Topic

Historicon 2012 is passed and I assume everyone is now home. How was it? and what grade do you give it?

I could not attend but always interested in the state of the Hobby and conventions in general.
VR
James Mattes

A-

I personally give it an A to A+. One of my favorite Historicons. There is always room for improvement, but I had a blast. Just have the Wegman's right next door was huge in my opinion.

B+, only real negatives were the noise and limited bathroom (OK, so I was upset that the one I needed was closed when I needed it most…)

B+ for me … venue was great, but three of my favorite retailers did not show: On Military Matters, LITKO, and Armaments in Miniature.

Mark

Solid B to B+ overall.

First Historicon! Enjoyable. But the bathroom situation was remarkably terrible. There was like six stalls and six urinals for *the entire convention.* That's ridiculous.

A

Enjoyable. But the bathroom situation was remarkably terrible. There was like six stalls and six urinals for *the entire convention.* That's ridiculous.

For the record, I counted 8 of each. But that's just ridiculous minus epsilon.

Duncan

A. For effort on the part of the staff who were very friendly helpful andknowledgeable, for the game Masters it looked like there were a lot of great games going on, for friendly people, also for the players I had a lot of good conversations with them, the ones in my games were great guys, for the vendors – - lots of good vendors, lots of good deals, sorry to see the ones above mentioned were not there, I really like on military matters.

A. For the hotel, for the restaurants nearby, really love that smoky bones, for beach fries, maybe an A- for the food in the center. This is relative to other convention food obviously it's not high cuisine.

F. For the facility itself. I was in the big pit gaming area with the concrete floors and the uncomfortable chairs and that unceasing DIN. I could not hear the people next to me talking. I had to step outside every so often just to calm my nerves. There were side rooms that seemed quite nice--they had soft chairs and carpets --who got to use those rooms?

This is supposed to be a gaming convention. So why not put the games in the best rooms and save the painting competitions and "the University" and all the perreferral stuff to put all those things in the big pit room. Maybe put in some of the room dividers in the big pit room to cut down on that sound volume. I have played in every room at the Host and at Gettysburg conventions and others places and I have never been subjected to such a noise volume.

A- for me. Elbow room and sufficient A/C trump noise and bathrooms (I never had to wait more than about 1 minute).

I had a great time.

Brian

A!!!! But I admit I never used the restrooms or ate the food there.

> who got to use those rooms?

Gaming clubs and groups, HAWKS had one and the games I played there were nice compared to the main hall. Especially the chairs.

I would rate it an A. Great show overall!

I really liked the Wegmans, easy access food choices in the shopping center, Starbucks nearby, and easy access to downtown restaurants. This is easily my favorite location we have held a HMGS show (and since I am from the PA Dutch area originally, Lancaster always feels like home to me, so this is saying something).

Definitely saw many past gaming friends, customers and others I have not seen in many years who do not make the trip up north.

Doug

A- I had a great time, but the minus for the noise, and comfort (chairs, if you had a black folding one were adequate, the old brown ones were uncomfortable and possibly unsafe).

It'd also be nice if they could create a "Lounge" area with a bar and snacks in the evening to try to re-create in some way the bar area at the Host.

Solid A.

AAA+

A for me as well! I stayed primarily in Ballroom E where all of our Fireball Forward games were happening and it was a great area in which to game. But I did go and play Patrols in the Sudan on Saturday (Thanks, Martin-- really fun game!) and even with my hearing issues in noisy places I had no problem understanding the others at the table. It was indeed a bit loud in there, but the spacing between tables and the sheer size of the place made it so it was much more tolerable than the Distlestink ever was. I agree about the chairs, though, and I have often offered good money for the demise of the guy who invented those awful plastic torture devices.

I never once had a problem with getting a spot in the rest rooms, and they were clean and fairly decent smelling the whole four days. I'm not saying others didn't have issues and there are certainly not enough bathrooms, but I had no complaints.

I WILL be back next year!

Incomplete-as I did not attend.

B+/A-

Great site, plenty of parking, more than ample drinking & eating options in the area, local visitor's bureau had a good presence and were sponsoring tours (Fredericksburg is hip deep in ACW sites), lots of room at the facility for scheduled games and pick-up games, several places to pick up snacks, staff was friendly and efficient.

Down side, the main gaming area was noisy.

I had a great time overall. Here's voting to have it the same place next year.

A-

The bathrooms were a bit gross and the main hall a bit noisy but other than those issue fantastic all around!

A-
Overall, our group of six had a great time. The noise factor was the single biggest problem. By the time we finished running our game Friday night we had ruined our voices. The food at the facility could be better, and the chairs more comfortable, but were adequate. The shuttle bus was nice, but because of the late departure times in the morning and far too long of a loop time during the day, was virtually of no use to us.

B+ for the first year. If you were not there by 9 on Saturday parking was a challenge. Walking to the car with toys would get you quite a "following".

I give it an A. While I did not play in many games, nor did I run any games, I enjoyed myself and the facility. The bathrooms were OK, but with my room just across the street at the Homewood Suite I did not have any issues. I keep reading folks complaining about the noise and I have hearing problems but seriously I did not have trouble with the din in the main gaming area. I could hear the folks sitting next to me and across the table. Unlike the Distlefink(sp?) where the low ceilings made conversation almost impossible at peak times. Maybe my hearing is not as bad as I thought.

I think moving all the gaming into the side rooms would be a mistake and those rooms will not support it. Yes the dealer area and main gaming area are not carpeted; however, this is a convention center which means there are other venues run at such as car shows. To carpet such a facility would be to reduce what the FCC could host during the year. the universe does not revolve around us gamers despite what we want to think. Agree with Nazrat that I would like to have a little talk with the person who invented the flimsy plastic folding chairs that are ubiquitous as so many similar functions. The chairs in the side rooms were wonderful.

B+

Would have been an A but for the bathroom situation.

A- because of the bathrooms.

By the way, I arrived on Saturday around 10:30am and I had no problem to find a parking spot on the north side of the building, where some of the vendors parked their trucks.

Also – if you are into 15mm miniatures, shopping was not very inspiring, as the availability of some classic ranges was somewhat limited (Essex, Old Glory 15 had better presence in the past.) And I missed On Military Matters, too. But I wouldn't blame the convention for that. I'll definitely go back to Fredericksburg.

It was my first Historicon and I had a great time. Based on one visit I'd give it an A-. I have attended Cold Wars so know all about the Lanc.

A solid A for me. We stayed in downtown Fredericksburg less than ten minutes away from the conference center, and found a couple of really nice places to eat and drink in the evenings down there.

The improvements I would suggest for next year would be for the center to stock one or two better types of beer, and for more wargamers to learn how to pee into a large porcelain object instead of onto the floor.

Bing gives it a B

A solid "A" for me

While the noise in the gaming hall was a bit intense, It didn't bother me that much. Overall, I liked both the facility and area for the con – having a wegmans next door is great. I think the noise issue can be moderated as the main gaming room did have dividers.

I ran two games of Hail Caesar which were well attended and had plenty of room for my 5 x 10 playing surface.

The Saga tournament was a blast

Overall, I'm looking forward to next year
Miles

B+. Noise in the main hall was pretty intense at times. Had to do the "wide stance" everytime I used the urinals due to the on the floors, and you know what that behavior gets you in Minnesota. They prob should have cleaned the floors several times a day. Plenty of room, good availability for shopping, offsite food, and historical sites def. a plus. Had a good time, spent way too much money at the Capital Ale House on Caroline Street.
M

If a facility really wants to test itself, just invite 3000 male gamers for 4 days.

For the first year, I think the FEC did well enough. Food, noise and toilets can be improved.

I give it a B+.

Much longer drive time for us in Michigan though…

I'd give it a solid A.

I've attended two Historicons at the Host, as well as a a few Cold Wars and Fall Ins. Was unable to get to King of Prussia due to timing. That's the same reason I've never been to Guns of August or the Williamsburg Muster

Had the FCC and this Historicon been magically transported to MD or PA, I'd still give it the same solid A.

for more wargamers to learn how to pee into a large porcelain object instead of onto the floor.

And for certain individuals to remember that one invariably flushes post-micturation.

A-

I only had one thing come up that bugged me. I had a game cancelled on me and didn't find out about it until it was too late to fill it with something else. After driving 12 hours, it was a bit of a letdown. I would have liked a better way to communicate cancellations (it happens for a number of reasons – nothing you can do about that).

Bob without his dog 23 Jul 2012 9:11 a.m. PST wrote:
This is supposed to be a gaming convention. So why not put the games in the best rooms and save the painting competitions and "the University" and all the perreferral stuff to put all those things in the big pit room.

Well yes and no. The painting university has proven to be highly successful in the past and it is an integral part of the hobby.

Security of the site when not open is an issue as well.

As to the issue with the "Big Box" open area that was a major consideration both at Timonium and when the organization looked at the Dullas convention center.

There are ways to address that, and carpeting can be rented but at a significant cost.

The noise issue and seating should be looked into more. Don't know what can be done about the bathroom issue however.

VR
James Mattes

I'd give it a B.
My main complaint was the folding chairs. Not very comfortable. I noticed some of the padded chairs dragged into the main hall from the ball rooms.
There have been complaints about bathrooms all along no matter where we are. With so many people there I can see how it would be hard to keep up on them. I think at VFCC they just gave up on them after awhile,in my opinion.
The food could improve in time. Food at the Host started off poor to fair and improved in time.

B, for me. Noise, bathrooms, AC seem to be strained on Saturday (when it was not hot), Flea market area needs to be set up differently, and things like the chairs are annoying but not tragic. Did not eat there, cannot comment. Wish we were at a closer hotel, but that was our fault. Drive from PA down/back was not as bad as I thought, but I knew what times to avoid the beltways and the mixing bowl. Worst stretch of road was the last 5 miles of 95 before the exit. Biggest complaint for me was the cancelation and lack of games. Games were down from last year and there were a number of cancelations, that is something we can fix. Better than Timonium, and in most ways the Host, so I would go back. It is going to be hard to find everything we need/want in a place.

I agree with "Bob without his Dog" … Did anyone else try the roasted 'turkey leg?' AAAACK, it was a horrible, greasy stringy mess. After that experience, this Yankee will swear off any more so-called 'regional favorites' from the kitchens of Southern restaurants.

B+…there are a couple of things they need to improve to get the A…

db

I would give it a B. The main issue was the noise. The chairs were the 2nd biggest item. There was at least twice that I picked up a chair that an ample gamer had used and I feared that both the chair and myself would end up laying on the concrete in pieces. I quicly switched to a different chair.

For noise, when I ran my game in the middle of the room, I didn't have any problems hearing at all. When I was at the back of the room near a wall, the noise seemed to build.

With Wegman's nearby and "Hoagiefest" at WaWa, didn't bother with the facility's food.

Eight stalls is probably not enough for a convention of our size.

Setting up in the heat Wednesday was brutal.

The noise was an annoyance.

HOWEVER, I still give it an A- because the staff was great, the facility was large enough to accomodate us, there were many hotels and restaurants nearby at affordable prices, there was no lack of parking, the lighting was satisfactory.

Eight stalls would be fine if throughput isn't inhibited by negotiation of lakes of urine and toilet bowls rendered unusable by gentlemen who defecate anywhere in the general vicinity around and on the bowl after failing the whole "sit on the seat" test.

Wargaming, railroading, Bingo… whatever it is, it is always the same deal. Being able to wipe one's own rear end without a catastrophic failure shouldn't be treated as a rarified talent.

A-, primarily for noise. Games seemed well attended, and the game I ran sold out in pre-reg which was nice. But there was still plenty of opportunity to get into games over the course of the day, and I got into a sit in without trouble both times I tried.

Loved the location, the Bob has a very good idea about the painting areas vs gaming areas – for one, you simply aren't going to find that much noise in the painting classes. A divider for the tournament areas might be a reasonable way to drop noise as well.

Sounds like the convention staff wants the business, working with them to solve the issues could be of considerable benefit.

Happy I went, and will happily return.

First Historicon. A- Dealer area was fantastic. Locating near major Civil War battlefields a HUGE plus for me. Saw a number of gamers at the Fredericksbrg vistiors center Sunday. Will try hard to make it back next year.

Biggerst suprise for me – I had so many greart conversations with people I had met through TMP and other on line venues. Only scratched the surface on that this year – couldn't talk to everybody.

Staff at the center were very nice and helpful – organizers – great job.

Bill

I would give an A overall.

C+;
To improve the grade:
1. chairs in the game hall were flimsy and poorly designed [seating angle, had you tilted back, not good to reach onto a table]. Easy fix. The ballrooms had upholstered/padded metal, straight back chairs [very good].
2. Game hall needs some noise attenuation materials rented to reduce the din. Was like standing next to Niagara Falls and trying to carry on a conversation at times]
3. The small ballrooms adjacent, had restaurant level lighting [low & yellow spectrum]. Need to add candlepower/lumens [easy fix]
4. Dealer Hall look dark, need to add candlepower/lumens [easy fix]
5. Need more water stations, with larger containers of ICE & water. [easy fix]
6. Schedule more frequent servicing of restroom facilities.

Most of these, exception the noise in the game hall, are fairly easy to address & solve and not too expensive. The noise one is a bit more complicated and might cost some $$, even to rent proper noise attenuating materials, and without disrupting the a/c air flow from the ceiling diffusers. The concrete floors require one to be seated as much as possible in both the game & dealer halls. I would hate to have to stand there for more than 3-4 hours tops.

One thing that stood out, the number of people wearing Expo shirts [staff] were in great numbers [if not effective in addressing the deficiencies]. I observed one supervisor-type talking over with 3-4 young men work-shift changes, working longer etc. That told me they were trying to respond to issues…compare that to the Eisenhower at Gettysburg where it seemed after 5-6 times they still could not have cared less about improving the quality & level of service the customer required.
Remember, we are comparing to a recent site [Host] that had us for nearly 20 years…that's a lot of learning & improving for both parties. What the Host offered us in 1992 was not what they offered in 2012.

For a first year, this was not bad, and we should expect & negotiate for continuous improvement going forward. This facility staff really seemed to eager to meet our needs, even if we could not always forecast what those would be, nor they the ability to respond in the moment.

We ought to tell them we need XX footcandles of lighting at our game surfaces; we need xx gallons of iced water supplied every XX hours..[or since I am sure we've never recorded these types of things..shame on us. We could say..water to be checked and replenished every 1.5 hours etc] Restrooms checked and serviced as necessary every 3 hours etc..and see what they respond with as far as staffing & M&E costs etc.

A for me. Worth the long trip from the Isle of Man. Plenty of really good games going on. Very friendly players and organisers. The standard and breadth of the games being played was stunning. Already considering selling my children to get back next year.

B leaning towards B+.

Bad Points:
First thing that turned me off on the convention was HMGS lost my pre-reg and I was locked out of all my games.

Noise in hall was really tough when crowded. I had trouble talking to a person across the table from me.

Long drive, 10 – 11 hours.

Bathrooms were not great, but not terrible. I never waited, just didn't like the low positions of the urinals.

Good Points:

Great hotel room and the three there are all within walking distance (1/4 mile max it seemed).

Plenty of parking.

Good food in area (Bailey's was a very good pub).

I thought the dealer area and the games area had plenty of room. I liked the one room dedicated to open gaming with 8 or so tables.

Chairs didn't bother me.

Thought the flea market area was fine.

Enjoyed the con, looking forward to next year.

Before I give you my grade, let me explain how I come up with this rating.

First I feel that an "A" is Perfect and an "A-" is near perfect. Second I am basing my rating on the facility, not if I live far away or close to the facility. Third I am basing it on the point of view of an average attendee, not an HMGS staff member, not a GM and not a vendor. Fourth I am a tough grader, I heavily reduce a score on something that I feel is a critical issue. Fifth, I am taking into consideration that this is not a local convention, this is Historicon the Premier Historical Miniatures Con in North America. I've been to smaller conventions and I give them a pass on certain things since I know they have limited budgets and staff.

Here are the items that for me downgraded the Perfect rating of this Historicon:

1. FOOD – The onsite food was awful. It is true that many options were out there and I ate most of my meals at Wegmans (you have to love Wegmans). It did pull you out of the venue. I think upgrading the onsite food is an fairly easy fix.

2. ONSITE HOTEL – Lack of an onsite hotel. I stayed at the Homewood Suites which I thought was a decent hotel (far better than the Host or the Red Roof Inn) and it is close, but it is not connected. This is not a big on weekends like the one we just had, but if the weather is lousy it can be an issue. Since this is a miniatures convention, not a vacation, I personally would prefer a connected hotel.

3. PARKING – A lack of onsite Parking. This was not a concern for me, but I did hear a lot of complaining about the tight parking. This is an issue that has faced the Host for some Historicon. You end up afraid to go out since you may not get another parking spot. This can be corrected as well since it appears they have room to expand the parking.

4. Bath Rooms – These were too dirty and too few. This is a critical issue and I am not sure how they can correct this. Personally, I walked to my room at the Homewood and used the one in the room. That option wasn't available to everyone. I found it shocking how few bathrooms were available.

5. Noise – The noise in the main hall was too loud. To me, this is the 2nd critical issue. It made it difficult to hear the GM and other players. It also made it next to impossible to talk with someone on the cell phone. I saw some ideas on putting up dividers to dampen the noise, but I'm not sure that will work (but I'm far from an expert). So I am unsure if they have an easy fix for this.

If you consider some of the older attendees at the con, going out for food, not having an onsite hotel, having trouble finding a parking lot, having a hard time with the bath rooms and most of all the noise, this ends not being an "A" (Perfect) facility.

So with that said I give it a "C" to "C+".

Ok you might say that I am focusing on the negatives, so I'll list some of the positives.

1. RAIL – Rail station was 10 minutes away.
2. HOTEL – Homewood Suites was nice.
3. OFFSITE FOOD -Plenty of good places to eat onsite.
4. ONE LEVEL – The single level was good for guys loading and unloading.

While these are the positives, I don't see them offsetting the problems I listed.

My goal is not to bash the event, but to help it. If we are not honest with identifying the issues, they'll never improve.

I feel HMGS deserves a 1st class venue, so hopefully someone pays attention and corrects these issues (especially the two critical ones I identified) to bring the facility up to an "A".

thank you.

A.

First time visit for me. Flew up from Texas to BWI. Visited Gettysburg on Thu, then down to F'burg for Thu night.

Went with the intention of playing the as much Black Powder and it's derivatives as poss and lucked out getting into 3 great games; Scott Pictor's Pike and Shotte game based on ECW Battle of Worcester, the outstanding Sevastopol Black Powder game, and an enjoyable late night game of Pike & Shotte using some lovely 10 mm TYW armies.

In between times I had the good fortune to stumble across the friendly bunch at the Aerodrome WW1 aerial combat table and spent a couple of evenings being the Blue Max (the wooden cockpit controls were very cool). Also enjoyed the lecture on airbrushing at the university.

Rest of my time was spent visiting with old friends from TX, meeting new friends, dropping money in the dealers whole and bargain hunting at the flea market.

The venue was great. No complaints. Location was superb and we enjoyed the historic downtown and a visit to F'burg Battlefield. There are several other sites I would love to visit on future trips.

I'll be back.