"Historicon Review" Topic

> As I understand the contract with Fredericksburg for 2013 is already signed.

Why do they have the blurb on the website about the location possibly being different next year? (under future conventions – just trying to be safe after the recent problems with VFCC?).

The bathrooms were probably the weakest part of the convention center, but I believe that there was one set of bathrooms out of commission when we got there (Near the dealer hall) which may have added to the traffic. I am not sure when they could have cleaned the bathrooms during the day as they were in full use every time I went, but I never had to wait more than 30 seconds. Their neatness may have been hindered by the height of the urinals, which was considerably lacking, so there was noticiable bounce spray which several other gamers commented on.

Food was fine. I ate onsite and off and was fine with the cost for what I got. I am not expecting 4 course meals at a convention center. I was surprised at the variety of offerings the center set up in the lobby, but I never could get near that "terrible food" as the line was constant. I at lunch Saturday at the snack bar and it was inexpensive, though the fountain drinks there were overpriced (we brought a cooler of drinks and had them in the car so I could skip that), though the drinks were far larger and probably worked out the same costwise, as they were double the size of the lobby drinks.

The main hall was noisy. I played one game there on Friday and managed to wallow through, so to me it was more background noise than anything else. The noise did not preclude me from napping in there Saturday (as did several others). Larger games definitely have to be in the meeting rooms if you really need to talk to the other end of the table. Still, I did not expect silence. It is not my basement. I suppose the old folks losing their hearing might suffer. Maybe Belltone can be enticed into setting up a franchise in the dealer hall.

Some of the breakout rooms were dark. You got used to it but it was noticable. They were carpeted which was appreciated.

I'm not sure where people were parking after, oh, 11 on Saturday as the lots seemed jammed full. I think some people were parking at the Wegman's and walking over.

Can't comment on the hotels as I just drove the 45 minutes home each night (just like my commute). 10 minutes would have been better. The rain Saturday did combine with the beach traffic to slow the Saturday morning drive to an hour, but no big deal. There a a bunch more hotels at exit 126. We drove down that way Saturday night to hit another restaurant, but I am familiar with the area just from passing through so much on the way to Florida and SC.

There were always tables open, but that is a good thing. My friends and I had held off GMing anything to get a feel for the place. We are already talking about what to run next year.

I only heard 1 GM complain that they did not get a full crowd for their game. I got into 4 over the 2 days I attended, so I had no problem getting a game. We did have trouble finding things we were interested in and that were open, but we struggled through and got things we enjoyed.

I saw just about everyone I usually did. One missing person was at a reunion. The California group was not there, but I doubt that distance to the new venue was the problem.

Oh, and I just want to note that the locals were probably the friendliest people I have ever met. The venue staff was great, running around like crazy trying to make people happy if it was in their power (this includes the cashiers and food prep people). The staff at the restaurants we hit were great. We hit Chik-fil-la for a snack and the counter staff brought the food to the table, checked on us regularly, and refilled drinks and cleared our table. We were stunned.

I did like that you never had to walk far to find stuff, and could survey all the gaming space and not wonder if something was stuffed off in a lost room. Dealer's hall was great (there was food there, and the dealers had their own entrance to the flea market). Found what I was looking for from people I had not seen before. I am not sure where any other dealers could have been put, though I suppose they could bounce the food service from that area. I thought the big deal about the Host was we were out of dealer space. I don't think there is anyplace else to expand unless they take out the flea market. Maybe that will be outside (that would be popular!).

The flea market crazy both days (fri and sat). Even a few hours after opening they were still well trafficked.

I can't compare it to VFCC as I was unable to attend there, but it was comparable to other big conventions I have attended. Unless you find an abandoned office building or hotel so each game is in its own room there will be noise (one GM complained at the Host because the two other games in the breakout room were too noisy. Just saying,), and some lighting issues, and lots of people mean heavy use of the facilities. You are not going to get your own bathroom with an attendant. If your biggest thrill at the conventions is to go to the bathroom you will be disappointed at most events. How do you survive going to the ballpark, or the movies?

I had fun, and will go back. I saw old faces and new faces, both in the games and in the dealer hall. Saw some great games and played in my share. Spent more than I planned but was happy to do it.

Why do they have the blurb on the website about the location possibly being different next year? (under future conventions – just trying to be safe after the recent problems with VFCC?).

There is a Get Out of Jail Free clause if there were some sort of problem this year. I am willing to bet that they will not be stating where the next year's convention will be until the end of the current year's from now on.

And I would be surprised if Historicon ever goes back to the Host, though I thought that venue was fine. The area has changed since it was there last. A number of the "gamer" (i.e. cheap) hotels have been demolished for shopping. A 10 minute drive to the next cheap, offsite hotel, would be a dream now.

Got back to Indy just after 11pm last night. It is a 10-11 hour drive for us, but worth it.
We will definately be back next year. Most of the points written above I agree with. My feet were killing me every night due to the bare concrete floor, and it was very loud.

I made a (fairly) last minute decision to do a one day drive by.

The drive down from the KoP area to the Con took me 3h 40m. That includes a quick stop near the begining to top off the gas and a quick stop halfway down to recycle coffee.

I took I-95 down, left at 0500 and pulled in to the parking lot at 0840. Having seen "car-mageddon" on I-95, I was pleasantly surprised.

I did cheat a little and have breakfast before I left, but did grab a $3.00 USD pretzel and a $2.00 USD coffee when I got there. Seeing the Wegman's and all the other stuff on the way in, though, I didn't bother with the Con food after that.

Since I did not pre-reg, and really was only coming to shop, I just wandered around looking at games and talking to people.

Picked up a few things. Including some lovely Knuckleduster War of 1812 goodies. A pair of 1/1200th scale ships in the flea. And, some All The King's Men AWI 54mm goodness (Damn you Ken!).

Lunch was at Cheeseburger In Paradise. Dinner at TGI Friday's, only because I topped off at the Wawa gas station.

The only problems I could see were the concrete in the dealers area and main gaming area, being a bit tough on the knees, the noise level in the main gaming area, and the premium charge for domestic beer. The only thing that the facility can really fix, outside of maybe throwing down some indoor-outdoor temporary carpet, is maybe a better cost food and beverage contract. I don't know what their flexibility on that would be.

I didn't mind the walk to the Wegmans'. The gas at the Sheetz and the Wawa was thirty cents or more cheaper than here in PA. The drive home wasn't that bad. It was worse because of the rain and because of idiots at the tolls.

Hint: When you see the words "Toll Booth 2 Miles", there's the time to fumble for your money.

I would go back to the FCC for another round.

Eric

So for those hoping Historicon will be moving back north anytime in the near future you can stop hoping!

Really? So membership opposition to a given location means nothing? Like Baltimore?

As I understand the contract with Fredericksburg for 2013 is already signed.

Proof?

Also add the fact that just about every facility north of the DC/Baltimore line has for one reason, or another been crossed off the list of possible locations I just don't see why the whole "Move" conversation needs to go on any longer.

Really? Nearly every single potential location? The search committee went to many hundreds of locations north of DC? Wow. Must have had a lot of time on their hands.

Just find it very rude when some one pops in on the forum and declares that others should stop voicing their opinion. Things have changed in the past through open discussion. Things will likely change again in the near future.

HG,

I can't vouch for the accuracy of the numbers, but that is what they claim for 2009. I want to say that the record attendance was even higher some years ago, but I couldn't find any backup on that.

I'm not trying to say the economy is good by any means, just that those trying to use the economy as reasoning for Hcon 2012 numbers being off are using flawed data. You can argue that the economy is very bad now (it is), but I don't think someone can reasonably argue that that 2009 vs. 2012 attendance can be attributed to the economy.

I couldn't agree more that the convention is damaged for me because so many of my friends are not there.

"Some folks are still under the delusion that Historicon will return to the Host in Lancaster. It's not going to happen, so get used to it. HMGS has already made the firm business decision that all three shows will not be held in the same facility ever again."

For myself, I am not under any delusions. However, the BoD are not Generalissimos. All it would take to reverse their policies and prejudices is for enough people to get fed up and vote someone else in. Whether or not that ever happens, it certainly could.

"The reasons should be obvious, but as a quick review I'll offer a couple here. What if the Host goes bankrupt next week, next month, or 6 months from now? What if the Host suffers from some natural disaster? As happened to the Osprey "Military History Weekend" last year, when the original scheduled facility was severely damaged by a tornado a couple of months before the show date. What if the local government seizes the property for "another" use?"

I'm am not trying to be argumentative, I'm really not, but I strongly disagree with this reasoning. First, there is no evidence whatsoever to support concern for the Host's financial situation. It is a canard that keeps getting thrown up as a legitimate reason to keep Hcon out of the Host. To make the whole thing even more ridiculous, we simultaneously get the whole, "the Host is booked every year until 2372 AD" argument as well. The place is a bit of a dump, no argument from me, but it is a dump that seems to do very good business.

I also think that fear of natural disasters and the like is an overblown concern. In the extraordinarily unlikely event that something happened to a venue and an HMGS event or two had to be canceled, it would not be the end of the world. I love these conventions and look forward to them immensely, but they are not NORAD or a hospital.

If the alternative is a location that draws close to a thousand people less than the other one, I think this is too high a price to pay for protection against a freak Pennsylvania tornado.

"A number of the "gamer" (i.e. cheap) hotels have been demolished for shopping."

There was a new hotel built just a few years ago a couple buildings down from the Host. I'd wager that the number of rooms there has been stable over the last 5 or 6 years, despite the construction of shopping.

As I posted on the other thread, I loved the new place. Yes, it had some issues; noise, bathrooms, carpet. Nothing was a deal breaker. Would gladly return many times, 5 hour drive. Spent $800 USD+ in the dealer room.

Hmm, I am kind of glad that I did not go now. Sounds like nobody had any fun at the convention.

I came from California and arrived at Washington/Dullas at about so we had to suffer through rush hour traffic to get to Fredericksurg but i've done that drivIng to Lancaster too so it all seemed the same to me

I stayed at Homewood Suites and found it to be very nice for the price. King bed, flat screen TV with a DVD player, a kitchenette and free breakfast. Staff there were very helpful. I used some of provided dishes and utensils and put the sink to wash later but housekeepIng put everything in the dishwasher and did it for me.

The gaming hall and dealer's rooms were large and spacious and even though there seemed to be plenty of people, it never felt too crowded.
I suppose the a/c was fines as I never thought about being hot and although there seems to be complaints about the noise in the gaming room I never really noticed it.

I never used the restrooms there nor did I eat onsite (I went to Wegman's every day.

I really enjoyed the con there. I miss Lancaster but Fredericksburg was pretty good.

Honestly I'll go wherever HMGS has it.

As a GM, site access was great, but walking through the main gaming hall was there was problematic. They need to align the main aisle through the tables with the sets of entry doorways.

The room size was good, and though an adequate amount of room was available for people to get around each gaming table, but if you had a specator or two, blocking access was common. There seemed to be enough empty tables, particularly in the back of the hall, that this could have been lessened by pushing more games into that area.

I found the noise to be a real pain at times, and the site should hang curtains and put some flooring down to both decrease the noise level as well as to create a more inviting atmosphere.

The concrete was rough on the feet and leg joints, particularly as a GM, so if nothing changes, next year I'll be bringing one of these: link

I thought the food was okay, the beverages were overpriced, and the water stations were too far away for people in the main hall to readily access them.

I'll chime in also that the bathrooms were too few, too small (not to mention poorly designed), and not cleaned often enough. While they are at it fixing them, they should give the bathroom doors a good cleaning and nice new paint job while they are at it! The closest one to me was VERY dirty looking.

I'm hoping that the FCC owners appreciate all of the business we brought in for the weekend and they act to remedy the noise and bathroom issues before next year.

"I think this is too high a price to pay for protection against a freak Pennsylvania tornado."

I'm more worried about "Amish Lighting" that's basically where they all get together and have a reverse barn raising its estimated that they could have the Host down to the parking lot in 8 hours and three shoo fly pies.

By far, the best H-con I've ever been to. I've been to 18 of the last 20. Best hotel, shortest walking distance, I never saw a bathroom I couldn't in, food not as good at the center itself as the Host over the past few years, but much better than the first 15 or so H-con's at the Host. The ONLY complaints I have were, it was damn loud, I had to shout out my pre-game talks & the concrete floor. I didn't really notice the chairs, since I was on my feet for pretty much the entire 2 nights(& my knees/legs knew it). 3 1/2 hours shorter drive, yeah, me & my gang live in VA. But, damn it, I never complained about driving to PA. My games were all full & most seemed to enjoy themselves(you can't please everybody,there's 1 or 2 in every game). So, you should go next year, if ya want to. If not, stay home & bitch about it. At least we won't have to hear you bitch about it in person. Thanks to F-burg & HMGS for a fantastic con!
Peter

vagamerr63 wrote "The reasons should be obvious, but as a quick review I'll offer a couple here. What if the Host goes bankrupt next week, next month, or 6 months from now? What if the Host suffers from some natural disaster?"
So do you know this for a fact or are you assuming? In the same vein what if the VFC goes bankrupt?
What if it suffers froma a natural disaster?
Alot of speculation on your part isn't it?

From what I understand the number of bathroom facilities on site were woefully short of the code required number of fixtures, and that's assuming that the bank that was closed throughout the weekend at the rear of the dealer area, would be available too. Gamers tend to be men too – and that doesn't help with the count of the toilets. Ironically, and in accordance with code requirements, the facility provides more women's toilet facilities, than men's – I suspect that if the management had had the other bank open, they could have allowed the use of the women's toilets for the gamers… but too late now. Maybe next year…..

Having said that, the facilities are probably designed to serve a maximum of 1800 male attendees, perhaps 2300, if you include those near the banquet/conference rooms.

The management can't change that – except by physically building more toilets – and they won't do that on our say so.

The acoustics of the main hall is something else that is very difficult to address, without throwing very large sums of money at the issue. Draping fabric on the walls is simply ridiculous and won't solve anything. The space is not designed to accommodate large numbers of gamers, who generate noise.

The chairs are another problem – the space is designed as an exhibition hall, not, primarily, a conference or banquet facility. As a consequence the chairs that come with the space will be suited for their purpose – and that won't assume folks that will be sitting for hours on end around a table – for that you need upholstered convention style chairs.

The lighting in the conference/banquet area is also an issue. It's designed to meet a specific purpose, and I can guarantee they never considered gamers, who need fairly high lighting levels. They were thinking low lighting for dining, or powerpoint presentations. You can't simply change the lamps either. The fixtures are commercial products that are probably designed to accommodate a certain lamp and wattage size. The only way to increase the lighting would be to add more fixtures – and I doubt they will do that to suit the specific needs of one convention group per year.

Just my thoughts

npm

> So do you know this for a fact or are you assuming? In the same vein what if the VFC goes bankrupt?

Then the other 2 cons (being at other site(s)) are not affected.

From my standpoint please read any criticism on my part as room for improvement. Der Alte Fritz is under the impression that nobody enjoyed themselves. I think that is a mistaken impression, I think most people enjoyed the con. There is room for improvement, but a good con and workable site. I know that one vendor drove from Texas and was happy with the decision.

"Hmm, I am kind of glad that I did not go now. Sounds like nobody had any fun at the convention."

DAF, hopefully, you are being a bit facetious. Other than some complaints that the hotels were not connected to the convention center and thus one would not be able to drink and stumble to one's room, I did not hear many complaints from those who were there. I, for one enjoyed it. I hope it stays there, but won't pitch a hissy fit if it moves.

There was a new hotel built just a few years ago a couple buildings down from the Host. I'd wager that the number of rooms there has been stable over the last 5 or 6 years, despite the construction of shopping.

And I will wager that the cost of the rooms at the new hotel is at least twice what it was at the hotel that was demolished. It was when we checked for the last con in Lancaster.

I was being a bit tongue in cheek, sorry about that.

Wargamers are a rather hearty lot who can put up with just about anything if it means playing in fun games and shopping in the dealer area.

That said, I kind of wanted to hear about the lay of the land before driving 1,200 miles to host a couple of games or run a dealer booth next year.

I'm kind of surprised though that there haven't been more threads with pictures of the games and opinions on what were some of the best games. Joe Dever, we could have used you here for one of your top notch photo essays on a convention.

We need some Historicon eye candy here, please.

We went Fri-Sun and had a good time. Loading up our table at the flea market was a snap; easy access and short trip. Food on site was a mixed bag and somewhat overpriced just like every other venue. We stayed at the Quality Inn at Central Park. Maybe 10 minutes to the site, quiet, free breakfast & affordable. Parking is pobably no more abundant than the Host or VFCC but better laid out. It took us about 2.5 hours to go the 93 miles down, mainly because some moron decided to play bumper cars with a dump truck just before the Wilson Bridge. We left around 11:30 Sun and made it home in record time. Agree on the table layout, concrete floors, and heads. The chairs were terrible even by the normal standard of uncomfortable folding chairs. Every time I sat down I felt like I was in a hole. I'm more than happy to back next year.

"If not, stay home & bitch about it. At least we won't have to hear you bitch about it in person." ---- Ah now that isn't very "big tent" of you.

Fact is there was always an element that would come to the Host and still complain. This is a forum for those who went to review the con for good or bad. We need to encourage a free Intercourse of ideas. (I know, I know, I can hear you know "Intercourse you and your ideas, you didn't even come to the con!" ).

Civil is one of the most Civil guys I know (Grow a pair Johnny) and a gave a non disparaging and non cheerleading assessment. Which was echoed by many.

So I don't see it as productive to tell those who may not be in Full support to just stay home. By the way many of us did just that and ended up getting more gaming in than we would have at Hcon. What was lost was the chance to spend time with dear and distant friends.

And how productive is it to shout out "I ain't going" or "Glad I didn't go" or "Boycott H-con"?(not saying that Civil did that, but some (many) did) I'm just saying, go, if you wanna, I think you would really enjoy it. If not, stay home, like many of those who complained about it apparently did.(I don't know, because I didn't miss ya) Just like, if ya don't vote, don't complain about how the election turned out. That's all… And btw, I did give a review, it kicked butt. It wasn't perfect, but what is?
Peter

So have the set the dates for next year yet?

I bet the attendance figures would get better if we could have a little stability in location for the next few years, especially for those of us who like to plan ahead.

HMGS has already made the firm business decision that all three shows will not be held in the same facility ever again.

To me, that is the most compelling case, and I wonder why it is so difficult to accept. We are a fairly large group, coming together from all over the places, and each of us with different financial opportunities. The decision to offer different shows (three) in different locations makes most sense to me, as an effort to serve a broader part of the membership. Each location will have pros and cons, but hey, if PA is too far north, come to Historicon in Fredericksburg, and if Fredericksburg is too far south, enjoy Cold Wars and Fall in PA. I don't understand why we should wage a civil war on this every year.

If the numbers are correct, and the con lost 24% attendance from the last go around at VFCC – then there is a serious problem.

Fixing the problems of the FCC and attracting more people/dealers are apples to watermellon. How many new dealers will now come if the attendance dropped 24% and the costs of attending is more than the other two cons?

I'm not a Host lover (honest), but given how much more FCC costs, and the drop in attendance, then you tell me how fixing the bathrooms (other than servicing them more often, cause you got what you got), and noise level (you'll need carpet, not drapes, to dampen the bounce of noise – that is an expensive fix) is going to attract more people? And where are the throngs of southerners predicted to make up for the shortfall of those that didn't attend? Part of the justification of moving to FCC was to bring in more people from the south (even though the south has less people than the north).

I would also point out that if the BOD still puts the mailings on chapter expenses (outreach, newsletter, etc) and Painting U under education, then they are not really accounting for the convention's actual total costs.

This is all about the attendance and dollars to support this event. If attendance drops, and there are less dealers, and the facility costs more, then prices for those still going will go up, that is self evident. Of course the BOD could run the convention at a loss, and hope more people will attend next year too. That is a business decision, it is just not one I would make.

Bottom line – attendance and facility costs.

I don't understand why we should wage a civil war on this every year

Maybe it has to do with the nature of our hobby and what draws us to it. When was the last time you had a satisfying game that resulted in no combat, but rather everyone resolving their issues around a cup of tea?

"HMGS has already made the firm business decision that all three shows will not be held in the same facility ever again."

That would be a rational decision if facility costs were the same, or attendance varied. Hcon is now the size of Cold Wars, but the facility costs of the FCC are much higher than the Host.

I would also point out that BODs come and go, and they all seem to make different decisions than the last one. So nothing is written in stone.

Numbers are amazing aren't they? The 24% was an estimate based on the all time high at the host. From the Historicon site, attendance last year was 2890. And this is still all based on someone hearing the attendance this year will be in the 2700-2800 range. No official numbers are out yet or if they are I have not seen them posted.

Guys, I am pointing out the attendance and costs, and nothing else. FCC is closer to me than the Host or the Ike. I am sad that few of my friends will ever attend a con at FCC, but then again, they have the other two they do support, and many people don't go to all three anyway. But I still think this about the numbers, and that is what any decision should be made upon. I agree the con has not been helped by the politics and moves, but it is what it is.

You'd have to go back to what numbers were budgeted, and how far off they were on dealer and attendance income, and add in the addtional hidden expenses (though they might be better managed a second go around), and factor in the other costs that are moved off budget.

The noise problem is endemic in any tin building with concrete floors. Drapes will not help that, and carpeting is expensive to rent, and is just another cost.

Also, FCC was looked at and dismissed by past BODs as being too far south, to much congested traffic, and too expensive. That was back when attendance numbers were higher all around. I have no magic answer here. I'm not advocating for anything other than a rational look at the numbers.

Joe:

Your Hcon numbers seem more realistic to me than the previous one. I was just working with that. I'm not sure if this con lost more, or was flat. But given the suggested attendance number, and your Hcon number, well, that's still not great considering the cost of the facility versus other facilities available and their costs. HMGS is not in the business to lose money.

I went, I played and shopped and I had fun, I am happy. The BOD made the right decision regarding the move to FCC. The FCC seemed to have space to grow a little once the convention is established. The local seem to appreaciate the business.

There seemed to be more Vendors then the Host can accommodate.

The Beach Fries Truck had really good food.

Only issues with the venue are the bathroom cleanlenes and noise in the main hall. Both seem solvable at this point.

I stayed in the closest hotel which had suites (Microwave, full size ref and a Wegsmans for resupply) Actually paced the walk and the room was closer then the typical Host room to the gaming tables and no smell.

Can not wait to go back and may stay for a few more days and visit the historic battlefields and museums in the area.

"Numbers are amazing aren't they? The 24% was an estimate based on the all time high at the host. From the Historicon site, attendance last year was 2890. And this is still all based on someone hearing the attendance this year will be in the 2700-2800 range. No official numbers are out yet or if they are I have not seen them posted."

This is just a conversation based on someone's speculative number of this year's attendance. We all know that no official numbers are out yet. Nevertheless, it does appear that attendance continues to slide. The economy is bad, but not worse than the 2009 year I used as an example.

I used 2009 not because it was a record year; it wasn't. The attendance that year was down from the prior year (2008 was 3667).

link

I used it because it was the last year at the Host, before the BoD started tinkering with things. 2009 was a disastrous economic year, and attendance was accordingly down from the prior year. Therefore, 2009 forms a very reasonable basis for comparison, and the effects of the moves seem obvious to me.

I am pretty sure peak Hcon attendance was over 4,000, though I could not find it listed anywhere. Anyone on here know record Hcon attendance?

So, I was not manipulating figures to compare things. Attendance has been steadily declining since they started moving the convention around.

I think most of us would have been satisfied with it staying at the VFCC, but for reasons out of our control, that didn't happen. And even though Baltimore is closer to me than Valley Forge, I would have rather gone back to Valley Forge. Baltimore and Fredericksburg are equi-distant from me, but now having been to both, I feel that the negatives of Baltimore outweigh those of Fredericksburg. And so unless another site rears its head in the next few years, and it remains affordable, they should try to continue to have Historicon in Fredericsburg for the foreseeable future.

From the Historicon site, attendance last year was 2890. And this is still all based on someone hearing the attendance this year will be in the 2700-2800 range. No official numbers are out yet or if they are I have not seen them posted.

I gotta say, this has proved to be an interesting thread. The bathrooms were woefully inadequate, the place is exceptionally loud (to the point that people have lost their voices trying to be heard), the concrete floors killed everyone, the air conditioning was anywhere from just barely adequate to unacceptable and the chairs were the most uncomfortable thing since the rack.

Now, we're looking at spending more money for the facility (compared to the Host) and the numbers are less (although that hasn't been validated yet). One vendor said he spent 10% more, took in 10% less and he considers that a good show. Darn, I wouldn't be happy if I lost 10% of my business and it cost me another 10% on top of that!

This is a simple business decision. Where did we make the most money? Where did we attract the most attendees? That's where the convention should be – not where the "next levelers" think it should be.

Again, I want to see the final number and how they were figured out (did they count vendors and crew as attendees, etc?). But if this is true, there's going to be allot of fun at the members meeting at Fall In!

Someone earlier said that we "Should keep the ball rolling and move forward". No, let's look at the data and possibly think about cutting our losses.

As long as LIG (and the other whiners) stay away, Hcon will be fine. Wah…wah…it had to suck cause it was so far from my house…wah.

To be accurate, the reported overhearing of attendance was 2600 to 2700.

The BOD receives a preliminary attendance report Sunday morning at their breakfast. Bob Giglio and his crew started scrubbing the attendance list some years ago to remove the many duplicate badges generated between dealer badges, GM badges, staff, and attendee badges. The bottom line is really paid attendance.

I enjoyed the convention. Yes the toilets were a bit of a mess. Yes the convention hall food blew. However…

I was in the Hampton Inn which was the furthest from the hall. According to my laser range finder (which I was using on the battlefield to get accurate measurements for counter factual considerations) it was 300 yards away. Hardly a whisker over charge range in most games.

The Wegmans had FANTASTIC food. I bought things to make portable food. The produce was incredible. AND they had restaurant style prepared food in there. If you did not get a Wegmans burrito I feel for you son. They were fantastic.

The proximity to the battlefields was incredible. You could easily hit one of the battlefields for a couple of hours.

It was fun. I'd definitely do it again. The room at the Hampton was the best I've ever had at a convention and the food and amenities were also top notch!

This was also a learning experience for the City of Fredericksburg. According to a local newspaper, it was anticipated that Historicon would be the largest convention ever held in their fair city.

Perhaps we can persuade them to make some improvements…

B- overall

I liked the venue itself, offloading things from the car was a breeze and there wasn't a bunch of stairs to go up and down. Dealer hall, Hobby area, gaming rooms all located close together.

Bathrooms were a weak point, got dirty real quickly and I don't really think it was the staff's fault, every time I went in they were cleaning up some inconsiderate idiot's mess.

Water could have been re-filled more often and kept up through the day, but not a real bother with Wegman's being so close. I just grabbed a case and through it under my game table in the HAWKs room.

Food onsite was, as the consensus seems to be, garbage, but having free breakfast at the Hampton and Wegmans (again) plus the awesome Beach Fries food truck (great idea whoever thought of that) nearby negated any of that.

Noise did seem to be a problem, even in the smaller rooms, the high ceilings might have had something to do with it, but players and I had trouble hearing each other at times. Also the rooms with only the chandeliers caused some visibility issues for those of us with less than perfect vision. :)

Ride down from the B-more area was the worse thing, not a problem until the last 30 miles which took me over 1.5 hours to get through Thursday late morning. Ride back, virtually no problem.

I'd definitely go back.

-Greg

Had a great time. The only negative for me was the noise. Had no problem with the toilets, the food in the surrounding area was glorious, and I loved the centralized locations of the events.

A particular bonus was just being able to walk through all the gaming areas to see and take pics of the various events I was interested in.

I'll certainly go to it if it remained in the mid-atlantic area, but appreciated the location and convenience of Fredericksburg.

So you couldn't bring your own drinks in?

Missed everyone this year. Sorta of sad not being able to go but I'll see everyone at Cold Wars!!!

Marvin V, the FCC has a liquor license which means they are responsible for all alcohol that is on the site. While I was not thrilled with the beer choices offered I respected the legal issues such an establishment must hold to. Therefore, if I wanted a beer or a drink I purchased one there if I wanted to stay and game or just hang out. If I felt that was too much I could walk back to my room to fix a drink but would not carry it over to the FCC.

The Valley Forge location had a similar license and could have lost said license if a member of the ATF, or local law enforcement had come in and noticed patrons bringing in their own liquor, wine, or beer. Plus someone might have gone to jail, and there would have been some hefty fines for the owners of the Valley Forge site. Fortunately that did not happen.

There was a statement about this in the PEL in bold print. So there is no excuse of not knowing the rules. Yes, when I get my PEL I sit down and read everything in it. You find out some neat things that way.

Therefore, if the the convention is held at the FCC next year please be mindful of the legal issues if you tote your alcohol over to the premises. The FCC staff would be in their rights to confiscate your drink and/or ask you to leave.

Hmmmm….. a re-ignition of the American Civil War here on TMP? Will TMP become the flashpoint that starts the whole thing over again?!?!

A quick look at the "pro" H-con votes and "anti" H-con votes suggests that those who live closer to Fredericksburg (i.e., in Va and places south) enjoyed the convention more than those who had to travel a bit more (i.e., those north of DC) than in the past.

Not a scientific study for sure, but I cannot help but wonder if geography played a role in the positive vs. negative reviews? Also, I cannot help but wonder that since fewer northerners (and conversely more southerners) attended H-con than past conventions, that the overall view that it was a positive experience is distorted and not representative of the HMGS membership (despite the cement floors, poor AC, backed up toilets, lack of liquid refreshment and the unbearable noise levels described by members north and south on various posts since the end of HCon).

I know some from up north will have favorable views and some from below the Mason-Dixon line will have negative views on the whole affair, but the geography based distortion appears to be a factor. At least that's my hypothesis (notice I stayed away from the oft-wrongly-used term "theory" so as to not cause any controversy).

Just wondering out loud. As I did not attend (only the third HCon I missed since Hcons were held oh so many years ago), because I felt the distance too far for even an overnight, I obviously cannot offer my "insights."

I may get the opportunity to attend next year. Maybe not. It seems that the location (from what I gather--as I did not attend--see above for more detailed explanation) was alright for many, but the actual venue (inside) was rather lacking overall, but not unbearable. Although, the fact that a Wegmans is nearby might be the deciding factor in making the trip next year.

Until then, good gaming and for those who attended, welcome back to reality and life's far more important things…..

Cheers.

Condottiere, Your North/South theory may have some validity to it. I do however think its mainly the distance folks have to travel and people's confort zones . The folks north of D.C. got use to it being closer and now some folks south of D.C. are enjoying it being a bit closer themselves . I for one am use to traveling long distances for my hobbies ( 14 1/2 hour to Hcon ),but I also understand those that either cant for financial or health reasons or just dont want to travel more then a couple hours . I agree with alot of the compaints for this first time event, but also have never been to a perfect event and have been to some much worse . Many of the issues can be fixed and I imagine most folks will come back next year .That being said if its a big money loosier etc. and a good site is found elsewhere then it sould move for the bettermeant of all . This is a small hobby and we have to work together to keep it going forward. If some folks dont want to go to it were its at for know, then just dont and wish everyone well that can and or wants to go . I'll stop typing know ,im getting a bit touchy-feely .

Disco Joe,

Wild speculation on YOUR part that it couldn't happen!!!

A tornado hit the F-burg area just a week before H-Con, and knocked down a warehouse, a dance school, and over-turned about 30 semi trailers less then two miles from the convention site.

If you're so sure the Host is disaster proof maybe you need to speak to the several thousand folks up and down the east coast that have been hit with a number of natural disaters this year. That, or maybe get a job in weather forecasting.

Despite the failure of the organizers to arrange for Historicon to occur within fifty yards of my house (yet again), I was very happy with the convention as a whole.

Here are Elmo's Observations

Venue:

The hall was noisy but no worse than the larger gaming areas at Gen Con. Bathrooms were getting constant use and gamers are rather hard on bathrooms and looked no worse than any I've ever seen at the Host.
I was able to park twice when I needed to and stopping didn't seem to cause huge problems for those unloading.

A- for the venue, high if they improve the accoustics

Hotels:

The only thing missing from critical items for a hotel was a Fridge. Otherwise, it had the pool, breakfast, etc. I grade the hotel at an A-. At least it wasn't some musty smelling duct taped carpet refugee from the 70's like the Host.

Oh, and to the dude who I saw eating 4 egg patties: that's why you're "gamer sized"

Food

Never ate the food onsite. The food choices offsite were fantastic! If you didn't eat at FoodE, you missing something! Beach Fries was even there. A for the Food

Attendance

Seemed a little light but Saturday looked the best. I had to drive from Reagan National and never had traffic problems. In fact, coming back from the Wilderness Battlefield hod the worst traffic of all due to some construction.

Conclusions

I grade the Con an A- and will probably return next year. There is enough sightseeing variety at the location that it wouldn't have to move for a while. Next year I may try and take in Bull Run and Marine Corps Museum.