"Two things I hate about ancient wargaming" Topic

1) Prefer historical match ups but that is not always possible unless can co-ordinate a club to collect a specific period.

Would settle for what-if scenarios or stretching the timeframe of armies.

2) I come from WFB/WAB background so I'm used to single figure basing. For games with figure removal, then movement trays are often a necessary evil. However I hate unpainted movement trays. I always paint, texture and base my movement trays to match my figure bases. That way even when figures are removed the movement tray still matches the rest of the unit.

I love the look of properly done element basing as it can nicely capture the different feel between heavy infantry, warbands and light infantry.

However I dislike the look of poorly done element basing (such as many Impetus players do, which to me is doing things on the cheap).

For Ancients I am slowly coming around to element basing and will be trying it out for my current painting project, EI Romans.

Cheers

James

I don't think that John the OFM is all together wrong about his point on making obscure armies available. Consider the empirical evidence at least here on the east coast in the US.

You can go to any HMGS-E conventions wanting to play a proper Ancients game. You will be hard pressed to find a simple non-tournament game to play. Those are few and far between. You can find them but they are limited compared to ACW or Napoleonic games.

If you go to the tournament hall however, you can find them readily complete with a-historical match-ups.

The notion that a sculptor can sculpt what he wants is absolutely true. They could sculpt an ancient Indonesian army and do a fine job worthy of anyone's dollars. However, if the army is perceived to not have a market, good luck finding a buyer of the masters or molds. You can sell them yourself but sculptors these days typically don't. Notable exception: the Perry boys.

Content for the thread: A-historic match-ups. Constant whining about "what the manufacturer did to my game."

So,…. what if a new guy turns up at your club? He's new to the hobby, but has just completed a 28mm Teutonic Knight army. You have Romans and Burmese. Neither of them historical foes of his army.

Do you

a) tell him to off and buy another army before he returns

b) rush out and buy a quick WOR army and spray it silver

c) give him a game, balancing the unhistorical forces with a points system, = and make a new gaming buddy

D), we have no one in our club with 28mm late medieval, but we are happy to let the new guy use our armies until he can make up a matched opponent for his army as we have many others to pick from.

(and we do have a guiy making 28mm Teutonics, which he is doing becuase they interest him, not because he expects us to join him or to go to some new club an immediately get a game with them)

seriously, what sort of muppet expects to have one army only ever and force everyone else to play with them? do you know anyone who thinks like that?

A review of the reports of the major tournaments, something I have done before, will reveal lots of a-historical matchups. This happens even in "themed" tournaments.

Yes, it bothers me too, but not enough to stop playing Ancients. I don't play tournaments, but that is for many reasons of which a-historical matchups is only one.

As for movement trays, they need not hold figures in perfect squared ranks. Several companies offer "irregular" formation movement trays, or you can just put fewer figures on the tray and mix them up.

DBx style element bases look just as bad. Three or four figures on a tiny little base, usually in straight ranks, all the same pose. Yeah, that looks like a unit. Cramming several of these elements together doesn't produce any better look.

I have played single figures, grouped into units games without movement trays and it can take forever to move a large unit. Yes, they can take on a more realistic formation, but so what?

As for terrain and scenics, that is always going to be a compromise. We need to be able to get our fat fingers and rigid troops in there somehow. If scenery is built to true figure scale then even a 15mm game would require a gymnasium to play in. Look at real world trees and buildings, not to mention hills, compared to their wargames counterparts…

This is a problem of miniature wargaming in general, not limited to Ancients.

Can't understand not liking movement trays. For every army I paint I make a set of matching movement trays. Their use speeds up my games by at least 50% also I dont have to touch the figures everytime I want to move a unit which results I much fewer lost spears.

As far as historical match up, I do whenever I can but don't mind playing non historical.