"Falklands '82: US Prepared to Lend Ship" Topic

While publicly claiming neutrality between Argentina and the U.K. during the 1982 Falklands War, President Ronald Reagan's administration had developed plans to loan a ship to the Royal Navy if it lost one of its aircraft carriers in the war, former U.S. Secretary of the Navy, John Lehman, told the U.S. Naval Institute on June 26…

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Wouldn't it have been easier and more combat effective for theRoyal Navy to loan the US Navy a bunch of uniforms? I have to think combat effectiveness would drop greatly, even with a veteran crew, taking over a ship of a foreign, albeit allied, navy.

Old news – wasn't this out in the open in the mid 80s?

Wouldn't it have been easier and more combat effective for theRoyal Navy to loan the US Navy a bunch of uniforms? I have to think combat effectiveness would drop greatly, even with a veteran crew, taking over a ship of a foreign, albeit allied, navy.

Sort of like the Goben when it went over to Turkish service, where allegedly the German crew traded in their visored caps for fez's?

Damon.

Yep. In this case "civilian" volunteers would go along to work the ship's gear that was unfamiliar to the RN.

This has been discussed to death for years – even on TMP. During the 30th Anniversary commemorations, a senior member of the Reagan administration (I forget who) mentioned that had the offer been accepted, the USN would be trawled for volunteers who would be engaged on terms similar to those used for the American Volunteer Group (Flying Tigers) in China.

Even if they had what would we have flown of it? The sunk carriers Sea Harriers, and possibly even their pilots, would presumably have gone down with it. Most of our Sea harriers, and our most experienced pilots, were sent south with the task force. RAF Harriers were ground attack platforms with limited air to air capability and their pilots had little ACM training.

And before anybody suggests AV-8's with USMC volunteers the Marines didn't get their Harriers until late 1983.

Fatman

Helicopters – there was also a proposal to tow the hulk of HMS Bulwark down south in that role.

There were a number of re-activations planned including Tribal frigates and Tiger cruisers. I can only see the Iwo being used if the campaign was put on hold and restarted after the winter.

I do not think the British government could keep it going.

<flogging horse carcass>

There simply is no way Iwo Jima could have been useful to the RN. Sandy Woodward's book is pretty good at conveying the race against time nature of the campaign. Either the job was done before winter or it was pack up, go home and maybe give it another try a few months down the line (whether that would have happened is another debate).

Speeding up the completion and commissioning of HMS Illustrious would be a less fanciful scenario. Still leaves open the question of what do you fly off it if a carrier has been sunk.

</flogging horse carcass>

As mentioned above, there were plenty of helicopters needing a carrier. There were also at least another three RAF squadrons of Harrier GR3s in the UK and West Germany and one FAA squadron of Sea Harriers that was slated for Illustrious.

Remember that Illustrious was rushed into service during the Falklands War and arrived at the Falklands in late August/early September 1982, having left the UK with an air wing on board (a friend recalls them flying the Harriers on off Weymouth). Illustrious didn't actually complete its sea trials until AFTER deploying to the Falklands. Here's a photo of the Illustrious, heading south, meeting Invincible heading north, in mid-Atlantic. Note that both carriers have Sea Harriers on deck (and no, they had not transferred some from Invincible – note that Lusty's Harriers are painted pale grey, whereas Invincible's Harriers are painted in dark Sea Grey):

Provided that a volunteer crew could have been formed under the 'Flying Tiger' arrangements, it's not inconcievable that the Iwo Jima could potentially have been deployed earlier than the Illustrious. It could therefore have sailed with the air wing that deployed with Illustrious.

Which FAA squadron would this have been ?

At the outbreak of the Falklands war there were three Sea Harrier squadrons :
800 Squadron with 5 aircraft on HMS Hermes
801 Squadron with 5 aircraft on HMS Invincible
899 Squadron with around 10-12 for training

Before sailing, 800 Squadron was brought up to wartime strength with 4 aircraft from 899 Squadron , 2 from storage and 1 test aircraft from BAe Dusnfold while 801 Squadron received 4 aircraft from 899 Squadron.

809 Squadron was formed on April 30 with 8 Sea Harriers scrounged from all that remained in the UK. These flew to Ascension, were carried south on Atlantic Conveyor and then split 4 each between Hermes' and Invincible's Squadrons.

809 Squadron left for the UK on Hermes on July 4, transferred to Illustrious (they are the one shown on the photo above) and went back south to relieve Invincible and her air wing.

My mistake, that explains it. I didn't realise that 899 was broken up. That notwithstanding, you've still got two RAF GR3 wings (Guttersloeh & Wittering) to play with.

Anyone know of SR-71 Blackbird recce flights over the Falklands? I have nothing but vague rumours, but it doesn't seem unlikely. US satellite imaging is another possibility as well.

Even at 90,000ft, a Blackbird leaves one heck of a sonic boom footprint across the ground. I'm pretty sure the locals (or any veterans) would be able to tell if they'd gotten 'boomed', even in the middle of a shooting war.

I have no clue when the US went to hi-res digital cameras instead of film, which makes a big difference in re-tasking. Digital imagery is easy to re-task, while catching film capsules is a bit of a pain and shortens the satellite's service life.

The ENTERPRISE with a mercenary crew would have done the job very nicely!