"Traders Selling Flames of war early" Topic

Wow you people have all the fun when I'm away.

Whoa. This is like that scene out of No country for old men.
The floors covered in blood and bodies everywhere!

I can't see any blood or bodies – all neatly disappeared

Well, that was a new one: getting DH'd for something which is not a DH offence.

I used to believe that Americans were passionate about freedom of speech; looks like I was wrong!

I don't like mobs, and I don't like witch hunts.

No-one does Bill.
Which is why I like to point out membership of the one and advocates of the other when I find them.
Sorry if that offends.

Some of us don't like

I am almost ashamed to be a supporting member of a forum where challenging such a person results in being DHd.

I had an English teacher at school whose classroom was decorated with Stalinist / Soviet propaganda posters and who was an avowed and out-spoken Communist. This was during the Cold War. This was completely acceptable, and no one batted an eye lid.

I later had a elderly lecturer at University who some students 'outed' as a member of the BNP and who was, as a result, hounded out of his job. Not for anything he had said or done as such, or for unfairly marking certain students or anything like that – but because of his membership of a legitimate political party.

"I do not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"
Voltaire

He has an absolute right to say or believe whatever he likes; it appears that the reciprocal right to oppose him is not so absolute.

Well said Ed!

colinjallen Given your earlier posts I really do look forward to your personal, candid and sincere apology for the brutal torture and murder of Jesus of Nazareth, the oppressive seizure of another peoples lands, their murder and torture, crimes against humanity and the current banking crisis which by association You are responsible for.

An attempt at irony?

One hopes so.

I assume that Gloria will be DHd. Odd that Gloria is also from Staffordshire; surely he/she cannot have any connection with Mr Hynd?

Unfortunately for Gloria's argument, I have never been a supporter of Israeli policy and have never joined a political party that supports it or any of the practices listed.

How am I responsible by association for any of the things you list, including the banking crisis? Could you perhaps be implying that my being Jewish makes me responsible by association for that?

As for Bulldog's post, I agree that there was/is a huge disparity in the way that communists and fascists were and are regarded. However, the "membership of a legitimate political party" argument is a false one; the NSDAP was a legitimate political party and, for example, Heinrich Himmler was a member of it. I assume that you would not make the same argument in favour of it and him as you would for your former lecturer?

As for Voltaire's 'quote', I suspect the other stories in your piece are as accurate Mr Bulldog.

Gwydion

Meaning?

Do you really have any reason whatsoever to accuse me of lying?

colinjallen

I have no horse in this race, have no love for the BNP and am unaware of making an argument in favour of anything, other than a bit of 'live and let live'.

You can take that or leave it as you see fit.

I am not happy to "live and let live" with the NF and the BNP because they refuse to offer my partner and I the same courtesy. As neither of us are indigenous British people, we do not fit with their view of how Britain should be.

As I say, you can take it or leave it.

No pasaran!

Mr Bulldog

Your Voltaire 'quote' is a popular misattribution.

I wondered whether your 'communist' 'English teacher' and poor put upon BNP lecturer were similarly apocryphal.
They sound rather stereotypical.

Of course should they have existed, the communist (perhaps naively) believed in a system of equality and fraternal trust between all mankind (often abused by psychopaths using that naivety for their own purposes) whereas the BNP lecturer believed in a party led by Nick Griffin who was convicted in 1998 for – lets see what was it – oh yes 'incitement to racial hatred'.

Sounds like the authorities got it spot on.

Gloria

Pretending for a second that it wasn't intentionally ironic – you do know Jesus was a Jew I take it?

Gwydion

So based on that flimsy pretext, you accuse me of lying?

And no one mentioned the authorities.

I did. I meant those who were in a position of authority over the respective gentlemen (I use the word loosely).

I prefer to think of it as gilding the lily, overegging the pudding, setting up an Aunt Sally, but you must select the appropriate term as you see fit.

collinjallen – you see how easily it is to be offended by making generic assumptions about people.
Of course none of those things would be anything to do with you would they. Always keen to jump on the Holocaust band wagon but not so keen to on the other baggage. Typical of your sort.

Yes I live in Staffordshire it's a very multi-cultural county. I've also lived in several other countries & parts of the UK as well.Can I assume that as you live in Yorkshire that you are just full of your own self-importance,

In fact i live in Stafford and No I didn't vote for the BNP nor would I. However I based my vote on actual facts and not assumptions or the stirrings of the gutter press. I did a bit of informed research. Did you know that there are Sikh and Jewish members in the BNP?

Gwydion – as you're from Wales I really wouldn't go lecturing people on rascism.
Still I suppose you almost get irony ….

Gloria,
When someone has , generic assumptions are not exactly what are being considered here. Joining once and then seeing the light can be regarded as an error; to do so twice, however, raises a few more questions. Why are you so keen to defend such a person?

I was far from being offended by you; in fact, how can I be offended by you? Pointing out the errors of logic in your post does not equate to being offended.

I am intrigued to learn that I live in Yorkshire; I must tell the postman!

As for this:

"Of course none of those things would be anything to do with you would they. Always keen to jump on the Holocaust band wagon but not so keen to on the other baggage. Typical of your sort."

I will treat it with the usual contempt that I reserve for

you see how easily it is to be offended by making generic assumptions about people

Typical of your sort

Gwydion – as you're from Wales I really wouldn't go lecturing people on rascism

Gloria – stop it – this is just too funny – you're making my sides hurt!

How dare you call me anti-semetic – you're only calling me that because I'm a christian.
As usual people like you don't want to allow anyone else to express an opinion unless it agrees with your own. In my book people like you are every bit as odious & dangerous as the likes of Nick Griffin.

What I do not care for are people who are bullies and conduct witch hunts whatever their political views are. The very thing they accuse others of doing.

I would suggest you have a very sizeable chip on your shoulder that you really need to seek some sort of councelling for.

& At least Gwydion has a sense of humour …

Gwydion

And your reason for thinking those things rather than accepting it as the truth? I assume you have one?

Those in authority did not force him out.

Gloria,

Your own words mark you out as

Not only are you

Bill the editor, feel free to DH me for as long as you want; it is worth it to show up Gloria for what s/he is:).

LOL how very mature of you….. presumably I'm also a fascist.

BTW Gloria Smud is a song by Flanders and Swann re: WW1

And I have a number of Jewish relatives so there!

Gloria- that was irony

Sure you do Gloria;). You can presume whatever you want; are you a fascist? Perhaps you can enlighten us.

I have updated the TMP FAQ.

It is now against forum rules to bring up the political beliefs or affiliation of any forum member.

TMP is not the place for that kind of discussion.

Amen to that Bill.
Now, who got their FoW stuff early??? :)

In my book people like you are every bit as odious & dangerous as the likes of Nick Griffin.

Personal attack – comparison to a convicted inciter to race hatred

Always keen to jump on the Holocaust band wagon but not so keen to on the other baggage. Typical of your sort.

Personal racial attack

personal, candid and sincere apology for the brutal torture and murder of Jesus of Nazareth, the oppressive seizure of another peoples lands, their murder and torture, crimes against humanity and the current banking crisis which by association You are responsible for

Personal, group, race attack (and for a raft of things the target of this offensive language has absolutely no personal connection to)

What's happening Bill?

This rubbish is okay but pointing it out gets you put in the sin bin?

BTW Gloria Smud is a song by Flanders and Swann re: WW1

Never heard of it.

I have heard 'The Hippopotamus song' by Flanders and Swann which has the chorus

'Mud, mud, glorious mud, nothing quite like it for cooling the blood.So follow me follow, down to the hollow, And there let me wallow in glorious mud'

Perhaps you are confused?

Maybe it was one of their anti war songs from the days of their involvement in the Vietnam War protest movement?(By the way that's irony again)

If your modification/addition to the rules is, as you state above, in fact the case, shut this rubbish down right now, please. It really has no place here, at all.

And Gwydion is right – read the lyrics.

Where is the place though?

I only wanted to let consumers be able to make an informed choice.

I wasn't asking for anyone to be banned, muzzled, prevented from trading. You see although Voltaire never said what Mr Bulldog thought he said, it is not a bad rule for a civilised society to live by generally.

(And I've found out something I can't mention because it is against the rules to mention now.)

So where should I talk about this – is it like smoking – I can mutter to myself at home and that's it?

What about the Blue Fez I hear you say?

Well maybe – but it's invite only and I haven't been invited.

And I have no idea what joys may lie beyond its door but I suspect that only a small proportion of folk who may part with cash that may (once) have ended up somewhere unpleasant may be beyond its hallowed portals.

So where should this be mentioned so as not to scare the natives? Pas devant les domestiques seems to be the watchword.

Just asking.

And

If you want to carry on this discussion you could try frothersunite.com

Are you on there Roland – because I would like to ask you a question about your new found status which obviously I wouldn't do on here in light of the new rules.

I mean that quite genuinely.

'God loves a sinner come to His understanding'

(Not from the Bible or the Prayer Book as far as I know – but from 'Zulu')

Boys.. People can change.

Whatever views he may have had he he says he no longer supports/ believes in.

I've got a mate who was once fairly racist. Towards people of African heritage. He was friendly with them but believed interracial relationships were wrong and could be quite vocal about it..

Now with me married to a Japanese and him the father of a half English half Zulu boy do need to publicly harangue him as a former racist? No.

This looks all very childish.

What's the point in arguing against fascists, commits, zealots ect if after changing their minds they aren't allowed to forget/ move on/ move forward.

You rail at him

??????????????????????????

What bit of my last post didn't you understand?

I was polite.
I am genuinely interested to know what his change amounts to.

It is this attitude of defending against something that isn't being done that is so silly.

Read what has been said not what you want to have been said.

I am not asking for anyone to be banned, muzzled, prevented from trading or appearing on here – as if, its not my site and I accept that.

I can't discuss membership or lack of same any more so I was following up Roland's suggestion by asking if he was on the forum he suggested.

I don't frequent it and have no idea if he is on there or not. It was a genuine question for information about how to find him on there and talk.

I don't see how that is 'railing'

"I am not asking for anyone to be banned, muzzled, prevented from trading or appearing on here – as if, its not my site and I accept that."

Seems to have a short term memory problem?

Always nice to see people encouraging bit of censorship Gwydion.

Just testing what level of pettiness you'd be prepared to resort to – not disappointed there – Gloria is actually from a Goons show.

Perhaps you'd be better employed in your fantasy world .

Or even better . Or was that it – Stafford Games sell more books than you do!

Gwydion, give me a rinfg or e-mail me if you want.

Contact details are on our web site.

I am more than happy to chat.

Gwydion, sorry I misunderstood your post.

I am registered on Frothers but due to bad publicity in the past I don't post on there anymore because there are a lot of people on there that share your opinions and are very vocal about it.

Fair enough Roland.

Sorry to hear that – like I said I'm not trying to muzzle anyone.

The more there is open engagement and . Well done.

Its Math who tests her virginity Gloria – do keep up.

As for who's who – don't suppose you'd like to 'fess up to who you are?

Thought not.

Censorship?

Can you read what I said?

I don't think you quite grasped my meaning.

Wouldn't want to 'fess up as this would lead to you and your sort being even more unpleasant not that you have to try very hard. I'll stand by my earlier comments.

I just took parts out of context – sound familiar

I really wish I never started this thread, as it's just turned into a real storm, and to Roland and all the TMP members who just want to discuss wargaming I'm sorry that this happened

all I was wanted to know was why SG were able to sell BF releases early (which was answered)

I've sent Bill an PM and asked him to delete this whole thread as frankly it isn't worth keeping.

Stafford Games wrote:

I am registered on Frothers but due to bad publicity in the past I don't post on there anymore because there are a lot of people on there that share your opinions and are very vocal about it.

It would be the same here. But people aren't allowed to be vocal about it.