"40k vs Flames of War" Topic

I want to get back into gaming. I have narrowed down my investment decision down to 40k or Flames of War. I like the WW2 theme and you can never go wrong with the WW2 theme. I have played neither. I have read both rule sets but not the current editions they are in. Money is not a contraint.

With this information, which game has more strategy and tactics elements to them? (assuming 6th ed 40k is similar to 5th ed.)

Thanks for your time.

Well I do not think that 6th Edition will be similar to 5th Edition.

As for FoW, well they do use World War II figures, but to me it is not a World War II game. Lots of Dice throwing though and Parking Lot Tanks.

But 6th Edition 40K will be out in about a week so I would wait until then.

Oh and if you want miniatures for 40k I would buy from Ebay before buying from GW you will save money doing this and be able to buy more stuff.

Thanks for the quick response. Using 5th ed as a reference for 40k, what does 40k bring to the table that FOW lacks?

My first question would be do you have friends or people you know that game? If so, what games do they play? Also, if a friendly local game store is close (close-ish) what are the primary games they play there? If it's a GW store, then your SOL and will have to go GW.

40k has a whole "universe" of races to play with a dark high tech Victorian feel to it, Flames has WW2 with every nation on earth. Warhammer fantasy has more strategy to it than either 40k or, Flames. 40k is famously "rush forward, shoot until you are in melee combat, game over". Flames is a little bit more finesse in my opinion but there are times where it become a tank parking lot but then frankly so does 40k.

I play 40K but not FoW, not because I prefer sci-fi over WWII but because I don't do anything smaller than 20mm or 1/72.

However, if you like WWII more than sci-fi then go for FoW. And if you have no preference one way or the other), then either can be good choices.

I can't comment on FoW since I don't play it, but I can't comment on 40K 6th ed either as it has not been released yet.

Local game store plays both 40k and FoW. Thanks again for the replies and help.

One more question that seems to nag at me. How does objectives work for FoW? The leaked 6th ed of 40k seems pretty interesting. I was curious if FoW has something in place. Sorry for the ignorance. 1st ed FoW was the only one I read and I do not remember an objective type system in place.

Why play just one game? With Plastic Soldier COmpany, you can do WWII on a bit of a budget. And if you stick to discounters you can do 40K as well. I play a variety of games, from historicals, SF to fantasy. Each scratches a particular "itch" and I don't feel the need to stick to one game exclusively…

Damon.

A good question to ask would be….

Do you prefer modeling and painting, or playing?

Do you like freedom of choice with painting and modeling?

40k offers you more freedom to do what you want with the appearance of your troops. Flames does have somewhat more streamlined rules, but their product quality is substantially lower in my 7 years of experience with them. About 5 years ago it started going downhill just a little…then 4 years ago, unbearable. 3 years ago, I stopped buying from them. A year ago, I gave them a second chance and I can't think of any choice I ever made that I regretted more in my entire life.

So, if you go Flames, don't buy Battlefront's miniatures. As someone suggested above, Plastic Soldier Company has nice offerings for vehicles. I personally like Peter Pig infantry models. Very solid and out of hundreds, I've only had one miscast. ONE. Ever. Truly speaks to Martin's quality control.

You won't have to worry about silly pseudo-scientific magic special rules in Flames of War.

Oh, wait. There is the Fallschirmjaeger Necroamncer rule… Never mind.

Thanks again everyone for being courtious to a noob.

I think I am going to have to get both. I probably will buy the Black Reach starter box tomorrow before it disappears. Then get the 6ed book when released.

Thanks for the Plastic Soldier Company information. Very reasonable prices..

On objectives, it depends on the scenario. Typically if at the start of your turn you hold one of the objectives in the enemy's zone and there are no enemies within a certain distance of it to contest your control, you win.

One advantage of FoW over 40K is 15mm WW2 is 15mm WW2, you can use it for game systems other than FoW. 40K is less flexible.

Flames of War, no question. But I am biased.

Players skew a bit older, there is less "fluff" and real history (it's application and interpretation by FoW is a cause of many internet arguments). The entry cost is lower, and also if you want to get involved in competition gaming there are no participation barriers (40k tournaments require you to have a fully painted GW army of miniatures, FoW is just fully painted).

40k is more embaressing with family and friends. I can explain a table full of WW2 figures far more easily than a table with Space Elves.

FoW is IMHO the superior games engine too. Far better missions and scenarios.

Explaining WWII easier than space elves! I've been there and you're right!

I'd go for Flames of War. Much cheaper and unlikely to change as often. IMHO the rules for FoW are also far, far better. You get to fight a battle, not a skirmish.

What games the people in your area? That is the question you should answer first before making a decision. In the end, that's the only thing that matters.

For me W40K has the advantage over FoW of allowing me more room for creativity while painting or imagining the background of my force, i.e. I am not constrained by history. FoW, in the other hand, has the advantage of taking less storage space and with options like The Plastic Soldier Company or Forged in Battle, that it is cheaper than W40K.

playing Flames of War means if you decide you hate it at some point in the future you will have a wealth of alternatives you can play with the figures you have.

If you get sick of 40k it's Ebay or the Highway.

Pat

Moomin Cage Fighter wrote:

If you get sick of 40k it's Ebay or the Highway.

or Tomorrow's War, or any of a number of several other rules sets that can be used with whatever figures SF you've got (but who's names I can't remember off the top of my head).

Never heard of any of them – QED Don't exist

Pat

Calico Bill wrote:

You get to fight a battle, not a skirmish.

FoW doesn't do battles at all, it does skirmishes as well.

Battles in WWII involve multiple divisions and last for days, weeks or even months. You know – the Battle for Normandy, the Battle of El Alamein (a small one that), the Battle of Kursk.

El Alamein lasted about two weeks. The Allies had about 200,000 men and 1,000 tanks.

Kursk has over 2.5 million men and about eight thousand tanks.

Slightly above the level of Flames of War I'd suggest.

Agreed with several of the points that were made above.

Because it is based on history, with FoW, you do not really face the risk that a certain large manufacturer's marketing strategy will suddenly change the background and invalidate entire units.

Also, with FoW's 1:1 representational scale (albeit with some over-representation of support units), you can fairly easily use the models with many other WW 2 rulesets.

40K is more embaressing with family and friends. I can explain a table full of WW2 figures far more easily than a table with Space Elves.

Stop the thread, we have a winner.

Anecdotally, there is a fairly large number of ex-40k players that moved on to play FoW (including myself). I don't know of such a community of ex-FoW players that moved on to do 40k instead.

My vote would be for FoW, but I'm sure you could have a good time with either one.

While I'd probably argue for FOW for a number of personal preferences, since you have a community of both players in your area, try both (waiting for 40K 6th) and pick the one that appeals most to you after a couple of games.

I 2nd McKinstry advise, play both games at your local hobby shop and pick the one with the better gamers that you have fun with. There is nothing like playing a game system with some bad players in it. I play both games and I have to admit that I have more fun with my 40k players than I do with FoW. But then with 40k, we have 1 big battle where we can talk, taunt and BS with each other and in FoW it's more 1 on 1 games. The FoW players are more into winning also so it makes the games a little more stressful.

I'll 3rd McKinstry, but if you have any interests in playing orks (or having a Space Marine Dreadnaught and Terminators), don't hesitate to pick up Assault on Black Reach. Sure, the rules will be adjusted in under 10 days, but if you pick it up at a discount, you won't have paid too much for the contents of the box.

If you outright think orks are silly, go ahead and wait for the 6th edition starters. I suspect they'll take until the end of August to hit the shelves, however…

G.W. will release the schmancy rulebooks and so forth early, then when they've had their change at retail glory, they'll put out the cut down rulebook with "just the facts, ma'am".

"If you get sick of 40k it's Ebay"

That is where I just might come in since I just might buy.

I stop playing 40k before 4th Edition came out since I hated what GW was doing to the game.

2nd Edition had some issues but I enjoyed playing it. 3rd was okay but then the nerfing of my Eldar Guardians and other changes and I stop playing.

But I still have all of my armies and have actually grew them in size.

When 5th Edition came out I picked up three of the box sets. Though only opened one and the other two are still in their plastic wraps.

Still did not like the rules but getting that many miniatures for that price was good deal.

I have also picked up quite a few more Orks from Ebay at even better prices.

With 40k you know it is sci-fi fantasy while FoW is not really World War II.

Here's one reason I'd go with Flames of War: if you own rules X and they come out with X+1, Battlefront GIVES you a mini-update copy of the new rules. GW not so much.

But why new rules or better yet why new Army Lists.

Since getting information on units for World War II is really easy.

Its hard it rate which is more 'tactical' because people view tactics differently. There is a lot more rock-paper-scissors in 40K and, if you aren't careful, it is entirely possible that you can end up facing an army for you have no effective counter. So, a lot of the game can be 'played' in the list building stage as you try to make sure you always have the right gun for the right job. There is some of this in FoW, but you don't end up with situations where you basically can't hurt your opponent's troops. A lot of people really love list building, and if that's your thing, 40K is an awesome game for it.

For on the table tactics, both have their charms. When I play FoW I feel like I can use reasonable, sound tactics and succeed. With 40K I always seem to be rewarded when I do things no sane commander would do. But 40K is a gonzo, off the wall game, so what tactics there are often involves gaming the system more than trying to play a battle. Both are, of course, tactics in their own way.

Go with FoW. No doubt, and I've played both. And while you can find stressing players in both games, the 40K ones are supported by dumb ruling. Dumber than FoW could ever get.

If you want scifi, go with other rulesets; if you like the minis, buy them. Mix them the way you like and that. FoW sort of encourages it (at least it openly permits that). 40K does not.

As somebody already pointed out, your FoW minis will never get obsolete. In 40K you'd better pray for that.

FoW players generally don't have the same gamer funk smell of some 40K players.