"Bill's Politics: Bad for TMP Business?" Topic

Saab's are pretty good.

But then we're not all motivated by money…..

It is only a medium of exchange after all, a tool to enable the exchange of values rather than a value in and of itself.

40% of the sites saved on my computer are gaming related, 40% are political related. I don't go to the latter for the former and visa-versa so why would I want to go here for politics.

THE BRILLANCE, THE KNOWLEGE,THE INSIGHTS,THE EDUCATIONS, THE PLETHORAS OF TOTAL ABSOLOUTE KNOWLEDGE !!!!!!
I am SO amazed !!!!!
So tribal ---????
and here I was just beginning to believe we really were "a village" --????

by the way -- most age of sail "WARGAMES" rules allow for the maximum rate of fire that covers great distances -- would they really fire that far off and waste the resources?? --and I do believe that Blue Moon Naploeonics are as good or better then AB!!
Regards
Russ Dunaway

To return, after three pages, to the OP – no, I don't believe Bill's politics are bad for TMP's business. He keeps his views closer to his chest than some others who have contributed to this thread. N'est ce pas?

..and so, to bed.

What color should I paint the bricoles on my 1/2400 HMS Victory?

"…the USA gives a very small percentage of its budget to foreign aid by First World standards".

Actually Bangor, that is incorrect. The USA, and its citizens contribute far more than other nations, and people, on a total, and per capita basis, to others.

Your numbers are skewed, but I'm sure that won't change your mind.

Back to miniatures, gaming, and barbecuing in the backyard for me, with real charcoal, and wood.

Here is an interesting article on foreign aid, which seems to suggest things are a lot more nuanced…

link

Damon.

Most of these people know little more than…

That is not my experience. Perhaps this is because when someone expresses doubts about evolution I do not immediately attack them as idiots but listen respectfully and ask polite questions to find out what they mean. I try to understand sympathetically even though I disagree.

What I have found is they distrust evolution because people who take the view that life is no more than a protracted chemical reaction determined by impersonal forces, human beings machines made of meat, free will and perhaps even consciousness illusions, misuse evolution as a banner to bolster their beliefs. In fact these questions are not in the purview of science. They take the view that the support of my enemy is my enemy. They don't realize or are not confident enough to see evolution is no threat.

This is not an ideal reaction but I find it commonplace. Imagine science bringing forth evidence which casts your most cherished and sacred ideal in a doubtful light. There are few among us who can honestly say they would not attack the messenger. I've never met anyone who was willing to follow the evidence wherever it would go.

I like pie.

Does anyone know what this line from Crosby, Stills and Nash Suite: Judy Blue Eyes means "Don't let the past remind us of what we are not now"
This has nothing to do with this thread but I am listening to CSN while reading this and didn't want to start a music thread.

i like sweet potato pie the best

Mongo

Returning to my early post and thinking about it more cherry then apple pie are my favorites.

WELL --??? Did in the age of sail they actually fire such great distances --thus forcing wargamers today to crawl around on the floor with their little ships trying to simulate a distance that would generaly really not be fired from?
regards
Russ Dunaway

The crust is key, almost any pie is good if the crust is good. Got to make it with lard, gooseberry & apple mmmm.

Bangorstu, I'm here to tell you that there is still hope in America. From my experiences the belief or denial that the current climate changes are caused by humans tends to be a generational one. Older Americans tend to be the deniers while younger Americans are usually the believers. I am a Generation X son of two Baby Boomers. While my parents are believers, many of my friends' parents are deniers. Baby Boomers are retiring from the workforce these days and Generation X is beginning to take control. So if the rest of the world can wait a decade or two we Americans may just sort things out.

I hail from one of the poorest sections of Virginia that is sometimes referred to as coal country. While I live in a small college town, and a major university is ten miles away, we're still pretty country around here. In fact, in my own county there are places where people live without plumbing and electricity. While these folks are a very small minority it doesn't change the fact that they exist. It is therefore understandable that some people in this section of Virginia are pro-coal and it is in their interest to be climate change deniers. I'm happy to say that my town receives most of its energy from hydro-electric dams instead of coal-fired power plants. While I know there were mines here years ago, as I have been spelunking in some within a few miles of my house, I'm pretty sure there are no longer any coal mines close by me, the remaining active mines being further to the south and west.

Even in a region that has been dominated by coalmines for generations, the younger folks, say forty and below, mostly tend to be climate change believers. Perhaps we have all been corrupted by the liberal media or the propaganda of our science teachers who taught us such dangerous concepts as carbon dioxide being a "greenhouse gas." I always find it amusing to read pseudo-science papers attempting to prove that carbon dioxide is in fact not a greenhouse gas. But when all the evidence is weighted against you only misinformation can prove your point.

As to the points about evolution I don't have nearly the time required to make my points here. I am the son of two preachers, both of whom are Doctors of Theology and believe in evolution. In fact, my mother's college dissertation explained why evolution did not have to be at odds with the Christian faith and why Christians should embrace the concept. I don't want to delve too deep into the subject of religion out of respect for the forum rules, but I will say a few words. It seems to me that most conservative Christians, especially here in the South, tend to think that accepting evolution will disprove the idea of God. This may be true if one interprets the Bible literally.

A new way of thinking is that the more fantastical elements of the Bible are mythology created by people to explain phenomenal events. The teachings of Jesus should be the most important part of the Bible for Christians, not whether the Earth was created 6,000 years ago or 6 billion years ago. Well, this may not be exactly new thinking as some of our Founding Fathers from right here in Virginia wrote about such concepts. I like Thomas Jefferson's Bible. He cut out all the parts that weren't about Jesus.

Does anyone know what this line from Crosby, Stills and Nash Suite: Judy Blue Eyes means "Don't let the past remind us of what we are not now"

The title refers to Stephen Stills' former girlfriend, singer/songwriter Judy Collins, and the lyrics to most of the suite's sections consist of his thoughts about her and their imminent breakup. Collins is known for her piercing blue eyes, which are referenced in the title.

Stephen Stills, on National Public Radio July 15, 2007, in talking about the release of demo tapes he made in 1968, called Just Roll Tape, reveals that Judy Collins was with him in the studio when these tapes were recorded. She told him "not to stay [at the studio] all night", Stephen said. "Suite: Judy Blue Eyes" is one of the demo songs. When the interviewer asked if he and Judy were still a couple then, because the interviewer had always thought the song was a breakup song, Stephen, after deferring an answer, went on to say that "the breakup was imminent." "We were both too large for one house." (source: Wikapedea)

Thanks, I knew the Judy was Judy Collins but didn't know about that line. It makes the line sounder even cooler and with more meaning.

What an inspiring thread for a Sunday afternoon in the buff because of the heat. Thank you, one and all. And if anyone gets DHed over it, well, what else is new?

AGCC: it is the anthropomorphic part that is problematic, not the CC part, or the global part. I don't mind the discussion about what contributes to GCC. The talk about evil uses of the world's resources, and what must be done about that, veers into the realm of gov'ts taking greater control, at the expense of personal freedom. Anyone who does not acknowledge that component in the debate is either deaf and blind or bought into the "system" at some level of self interest….

I do like what Tom M. said -- I really do not like the idea that I am nothing more then the bi-product of some black goo that crawled forth from "the soup" eons ago -- my beloved children and grand children as well !!!
But then again -- I have noticed throughout my life that I can hold my breath whilst under water much longer then the average human ???
Hmmmm --???????
Regards
Russ Dunaway
P.S -- WHAT ABOUT THE SHIP FIRING THING ANYBODY ?????

No idea Russ. Are you guys going to get back to Ancients, or maybe some medievals with Blue Moon?

Damon.

What I have found is they distrust evolution because people who take the view that life is no more than a protracted chemical reaction determined by impersonal forces, human beings machines made of meat, free will and perhaps even consciousness illusions, misuse evolution as a banner to bolster their beliefs.

I'd say that is very much a minority view. Some radical atheists may hold such views, but that kind of attitude is pretty much a creationist strawman.

I'm afraid that the view of evolution being compatible with the bible is the minority view in the USA and increasingly under pressure in the rest of the world. Evangelical Christians and other churches base much of their beliefs on the literal truth of scriptures, including the bits that sound like mythology or have long been verified as being scientifically inaccurate or impossible.

Evolution is often seen by them as an evil conspiracy that tries to destroy religion, much like the very popular evil socialo-communist conspiracy to tax people to death through a massive global warming hoax.

Climate change is not something you can easily prove to a layman (especially if the opposite view makes you feel smarter and very macho) Combine that with the current anti-science atmosphere and it's very tempting to believe that climate change is at best a silly mistake or something more sinister. Common wisdom in most fiction these days is that scientists are highly conservative, hermetic to new ideas and paradoxically change their minds much too often to be taken seriously.

Evidence and facts, no matter how well argumented, always loses against conceited opinion and sticking your fingers in your ears and shouting lalalalala.

I think the question of ship ranges is a matter of answering the design question of "Do I give cannons their actual range and let the player decide whether or not to fire at that range, or do I shorten the actual range to the range that a period captain would normally fire at." I tend to come down on the side of actual range and let the player decide. Of course you then have to make a decision on how much damage a very long range shot would actually do. I guess the answer comes down to the designers bias.

I do like what Tom M. said -- I really do not like the idea that I am nothing more then the bi-product of some black goo that crawled forth from "the soup" eons ago -- my beloved children and grand children as well !!!
But then again -- I have noticed throughout my life that I can hold my breath whilst under water much longer then the average human ???

R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn?

Yes, if I paid to advertise a product, I would love that aspect of TMP

And again you bestow your gift of wisdom upon us, yet I see no solution proposed?

I don't think there would be any bricoles (visible or not) on the HMS Victory--especially at 1:2400!

Rob

Due to the nature of this discussion, I am suspending normal forum rules against discussion of politics and religion for this topic only, and only as long as the comments are relatively on topic.

What about topics within the discussion that arose naturally from such a topic? For example, the discussion of pie. Because if we allow the stupidity of discussing Global Warming to continue and a further discussion of pie would cause the lockdown of the thread, that would be tragic.

I'd say that is very much a minority view. Some radical atheists may hold such views

And I would agree but they are the ones the media gives voice to because controversy sells and so they are the ones who get reacted to. They aren't strawmen, the people rejecting them didn't create them, they are more like bogeymen. The radical minority of material determinists who claim Darwin as their mascot are chum thrown in the water by media, same as the Biblical literalists. Sensible moderates don't get ratings. The British press in particular love their 'funny foreigner' stories.

I'm afraid that the view of evolution being compatible with the bible is the minority view in the USA

You are misinformed, Catholics, Episcopalians, Lutherans and a half-dozen other denominations who combined make the large majority of religious believers in the U.S. have no problem with evolution.

Climate change is not something you can easily prove to a layman

You mean convince of the preponderance of evidence? You can't prove something like AGCC or even evolution. Proof and likelihood have an essential distinction, one is not simply a degree of the other.

makes you feel smarter and very macho

Why do you feel the need to belittle people who think differently from you?

"I think the question of ship ranges is a matter of answering the design question of "Do I give cannons their actual range and let the player decide whether or not to fire at that range, or do I shorten the actual range to the range that a period captain would normally fire at." I tend to come down on the side of actual range and let the player decide. Of course you then have to make a decision on how much damage a very long range shot would actually do. I guess the answer comes down to the designers bias".

Limit their ammunition, and give them a weighted To-Hit Chart that clearly demonstrates the advantage of firing at traditional ranges.

Then let them choose.

Also, everyone knows cake is better than pie, especially if it is a home-made, milk chocolate frosted butter cake, and/or a nice pound cake, soaked with a delicious, fresh lemon juice and sugar glaze until it is moist inside.

Both are superb, and clearly prove they are better tasting than pie.

Nothing wrong with cake either. Unlike global warming, where there are two diametrically opposed beliefs and there is no way on God's (or Gaia's?) green earth than either side will convince the other …love of pie and cake can coexist.

I like pie AND cake.

On the subject of pie it's definitely pumpkin for me.

+1 for Pumpkin Pie

How did this turn into a thread about the myth of global warming?

Apple pie for me.

My Mom's apple pie!

How did this turn into a thread about the myth of global warming?

Deus le veult.

I have been canvassing the Nestorian and Monophysite communities in Wilkes Barre. They favor strawberry-rjubarb pie, which is the only thing they agree on.

Metropolitan Herrekkk of the Coal Street Monophysite Church said that he didn't give a one way or the other about evolution. "Thinking about it makes my brain hurt, and distracts from my true work of blaming global warming on Pastor Nehennius of the Nestorian Church on Dagobert Street."
WILK talk show host Steve Corbett could not be reached for comment.

Bill Sayeth-->>

Due to the nature of this discussion, I am suspending normal forum rules against discussion of politics and religion for this topic only, and only as long as the comments are relatively on topic.

Kudos!
I think I need to become an Advertiser here on TMP….
Flexibility? Kaizen! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaizen
Still: mebbe folks should link a Blue Fezz topic or two here for decorum sake?

I think I need to become an Advertiser here on TMP….

You could launch a blog, then buy a banner ad to promote your blog… TMP link

As far as letting ships fire their maximum distance -- I believe I would rather skip "the exception" so I could play on a table and save my back and knees?
Willy i wood if I cood !!
Regards
Russ Dunaway

Good lord, not again!!!!

In less than a day we have how many posts on something to do with politics and religion.

This site is called The Miniatures Page – its about playing wargames with miniature soldiers.

For pete's sake why does this other nonsense always come up!!!

There are hundreds, nay, thousands of sites to argue about politics and religion … why do it here?!

Enough already! <exasperated>

What T Meier has said.

Mako -

The USA gives more in gross terms than anyone else as foreign aid.

As a percentage of GDP it ranks 19th – 0.21%

For comparison the UK (9th) donates 0.52% and the top nation (Sweden) 1.12% or five times as much.

As for evolution and the bible – so far as I can work out the USA is the only part of the Christian world that has a problem with science, though I could be wrong.

Patrick – thanks for your post, but the USA does, from the outside, seem to be heading in the opposite direction to the rest of us vis-a-vis progress….keep fighting the good fight!

Unlike the USA, European nations also spend their aid money as much as possible inthe Third World rather than use it as a means of subsidising home industry.

Some of these responses just reaffirms my reasoning for stifling some posters. Just seeing some of the anger and hate in some of the posts makes me wonder why some frequent this site though. I had some nice Lemon Bundt cake today for Father's Day. Robert

This site has reached a new low over the last few days. My supporting membership expires in two days. It will not be renewed.

Your site, Bill. Shame you feel you need to destroy it like this.

"As a percentage of GDP it ranks 19th – 0.21%"

I suspect there is a lot of aid, and other support, including military expenditures from WWI, WWII, and other wars, military support overseas to protect countries around the globe, military interventions, rescue missions, support for the UN, etc., that isn't being counted in your numbers, but believe what you will Bangor…..

Well done bangorstu, you win first prize in the "tick all the boxes" competition.

Believes the sky is falling check
Believes scientists cannot be swayed check
Believes appealing to authority wins check
Believes the science is unshakeable check

Tell me bangorstu, how come the current warming is unique and unprecedented? How is it only western scientists seem to suggest the MWP was not global nor hotter than today? How come ENSO and the major cycles such as the NAO are only recently found and poorly understood? How is it we have charts from the 1920's showing that Arctic ice was less than today? How did the Vikings grow crops on Greenlands frigid tutundra? Why did scientist hide the decline in briffas dendro series under other results so the UN and goverments didn't see it? How come we are currently closer to Hansens natural variability scenario than any other? How come not climate scientist can quantify how clouds effect our climate? Why did scientists claim the sun has no effect on temps but are now backtracking on that? How come the Antarctic is growing not melting? How come the media have ignored Svensmark's cosmic ray theory yet publish any half baked paper from any scientist that models a possible future catastrophe.

That grant-fuelled, greenpeace-backed science is settled alright.

I don't "deny" anything, I do question a concensus that is politically and ideologically funded. Questioning is still my right, even if I am questioning the new religion, and there are a lot of questions unanswered and being brushed under the carpet.

As for the person saying our children "believe" in climate chamge. Nobody believes it doesn't change. My child was told in school recently that the polar bears are dying. I went to see the teacher with data showing a stable population that has increased since hunting regulations were tightened. However, most kids in my boys class believe the polar bears are all dying. Believe, just believe appears to be your message.
Jaz
6sided.net

Of course, it's a presidential election year – war with Mexico anyone?

I feel very tired. And as a non-American who has lived and worked in those United States and loves y'all to bits, rather sad as well. Why DO you people keep on doing this?

Mako – in what way is military aid "humanitarian"?

Those are 2009 numbers I was quoting. UK aid as a percentage of GDP has gone up since then.

Even then, the UK, with a sixth the population of the USA was donating half as much in absolute terms.

But I guess you'll believe what you want.

6-sided -in what way is the science 'politcally and ideologically funded'.

I await your reply as to how the Chinese and British governments can be involved in this ideological global conspiracy.

The rest of your post is a mixture of factual error, conspiracy theory and asking questions easily available on the net.

For example – no-one denies climate changes naturally. Hence Greenland. The current changes show all the signs however of being caused by Co2.

Or do you deny that the physical properties of CO2 with respect to radiation absorption?

As for the idea that polar bear numbers are increasing….

link

Due to the nature of this discussion, I am suspending normal forum rules against discussion of politics and religion for this topic only, and only as long as the comments are relatively on topic.

And yet when the same thing occured around the same topics in the Plus Boards (which at least kept it off the main boards) you sent a slew of folks to the Dog House.

Hooray for consistency.