"Do You Use Gang Colors For Ancients?" Topic

For pre-gunpowder figures that don't have a specific "uniform" color scheme, do you make up your own to allow you to tell units apart?

F'r'ex, I have two groups of Viking berzerks, one in grey wolf skins, the other in brown wolf skins. Likewise, I have other color schemes that allow me to subdivide the rest of the Vikings.

Full Spectrum Management
Some have a scheme, others don't
I only do this with shield insignia
One non-drab color
Don't subdivide ancients groups
What?

I don't subdivide them usually… though it's an idea I'm willing to explore.

Football and national colours , so yes ;)

Sadly, I can't use my Romans at the game store on the West side of town; that's Crips territory and they think I'm dissing them with the red uniforms.

Some have a scheme, others don't

Doug

No. For non-uniformed armies, I try to make them as random as possible, using as many colors as practical. To make things a bit easier, I'll paint the trousers of one model the same color I paint the tunic of another. I also try not to use the exact same color scheme (i.e. if I paint the pants of one figure dull red and tunic brown, I won't paint another figure with brown trousers and dull red tunic). It also helps that I usually am not interested in skirmish games, especially for historicals…

Damon.

here's what I do to vary the colors in a group of celts/barbarians/whatever.

I decide on the theme color for the unit. let's say red. I place a fair amount onto my palette and then paint, say, one figure's tunic with it. next I'll add a drop or two of black to the red, mix it, then paint, say, the trousers on the next mini. Next I'll add some yellow and then paint a shield on a 3rd mini. This process goes on, adding some color to the base red to vary the hue until every mini has some article of clothing or equipment done in that shade.

Next Ill start with a basic buff/khaki color and paint some mini's tunic with it, then add some white and do another's trousers, etc until again, every mini has some shade of that color on it.

It lets me use 3-4 colors, at most, yet have all the minis painted in different shades of the same basic color. It also paints a LOT faster than it seems from just reading about it.

After they are all done, I give them a wash of 2:3 water to acrylic floor stain (minwax) all over the mini for shading. It's a nice and quick way to do a horde of minis. They end uo with a basic theme of colors through their clothing to tie them together as a tribe, yet each has subtle differences from all the others.

V/R

Hey TKindred, thanks for sharing your palette method. Seems so simple put like that, yet in about six years of minis painting it had never before occurred to me (perhaps I should be worried!).

Cheers,
Aaron

Ha Ha HA! He doesn't know the Base Hue Progressive Variation Method!

I painted my Milanese famiglia in AC Milan shirts. Nobody's ever objected.

LOL, CooperSteve!

Cheers!

Colour schemes for troops who likely didn't have colour schemes is an error. If the worst comes to the worst, put a coloured sticker on the underside of the base.

Why is it an error, Yesthatphil? If we don't know for sure what the historical colours were, why should choosing colours for purposes of easy recognition be any less correct than choosing them for aesthetic reasons?

I think Ice T should be consulted on this…..

"Peace is a dream, reality is a knife
My colors, my honour, my colors, my all
With my colors upon me one soldier stands tall…."

True Dat!

Gang colors make sense otherwise how the hell do you know who they're supposed to be fighting?

If everyone is swinging a weapon and nobody knows each other bad things would happen I suspect…

Base Hue Progressive Variation Method

I didn't know it was called that! I just call it the "I'm too lazy to wash my brush properly between colors" method!

Seriously though, I use a similar method like TKindred uses for all my troops. For uniformed troops the color scheme is a given, but it allows for a more "lived in" look vs the "we all just got issued our uniforms today" look.

I think color schemes are a fine idea even though I don't personally use them. I like the fog of war it causes when players have trouble remembering who is on their side when things get hot!

@ TKindred- interesting idea on palette tweaking. Sounds even better as Base Hue Progressive Variation Method! LOL

@ Gennorm- I hope your opponent does likewise and does a unit as Internazionale colours.

The color schemes my dad used on the shields for his Roman legions was team colors from the NFL. Everybody seems to paint the Washington Redskins, so he went for a slight variation.

I do that to some extent. I expect that:

(1) there would be some tendency for a band to dress a bit alike both because if a group is drawn from an area local materials would show some distinction from other locales
but mostly (2) it's basic human behavior for a group of comrades (like a gang) to want to fit in with one another. Military uniform is just an extreme case.

Yes almost all my armies have a primary color or colors.

"Base Hue Progressive Variation Method"

I just made that up. But if people like it feel free to use it. My gift to the hobby! :D

Why is it an error, Yesthatphil? If we don't know for sure what the historical colours were, why should choosing colours for purposes of easy recognition be any less correct than choosing them for aesthetic reasons?

You kind of answer the question yourself, Temp …

Because it is creating uniformity. Not a problem if you know uniformity is likely, just colours unknown.

Note I did not suggest choosing colours for aesthetic reasons. I'd assumed making a 'best guess' for authenticity. Not authenticity, but a best guess at it. If uniformity isn't likely they shouldn't be uniform.

One group of berserks in grey skins and another in brown (the example given in the OP) is nonsense IMO … I'd prefer a more plausible mix of hues and a sticker on the bottom of the base.

Sorry, Temp. but I think you're wrong on this one (perfectly entitled to your opinion but I'm not going to agree with you )

These are miniatures for a game, right? We're not producing museum showpieces. While gray skins and brown skins may not be historically authentic, it's a subtle aid to game play by helping differentiate between groups on the game table. The OP did ask "do you make up your own to allow you to tell units apart" not "did various pre gunpowder armies wear uniforms".

Using color tones to help pick out units is no more an error than basing them. I don't think ancient warriors took little square cartons of dirt and grass to stand on when they fought.

I have a friend here that paints his ancients in Oregon Ducks colors. My Spartans are painted in Ohio State colors…

I don't game Ancients, but on my Plains Indians units I can tell the war parties apart because of their bases. I will put a rock in the back left corner of one unit, or a patch of grass to the left of the figure and so on, that way I can paint all of my Indians as individuals and still know which unit they are in.

If uniformity isn't likely they shouldn't be uniform.

Thanks, Phil.

I wasn't talking about genuine uniformity, just of having particular colours predominating in particular units, and of doing this intentionally rather than because a) one is too lazy to get more paint pots out or b) one thinks tunics painted in x y and z colours look especially good at the moment!

But the hobby is big enough for all kinds of approaches :)

Cheers,
Aaron

:)

:)

Phil

I agree with the general idea from Yesthatphil that since these are miniature games, we should take care to inject artificialities in the representations (I have my own fetish about plain black bases instead of having my snow based vikings on dirt, dirt based vikings on grass, grass based vikings on pebbles, and pebble based vikings on snow).

The ideas that others have expressed above (access to materials, social needs) driving similarities are pretty much what I think too. F'r'ex, in the case of Medieval Scandinavian wolves, I still have red, white, cream, and mottled at my disposal. I don't think it is too much a stretch to think people would have made clothes from local packs, which would have been genetically related. And that people from different villages would be near different packs.

Besides, the real berzerks are the Scandinavians currently arguing over the reintroduction of wolves in their countries… :)

I also use sports colors as models for color choice (in the absence of other guidance) … hey, some human picked them. Plus it's easier to tell the good guys (in scarlet and grey) from the bad guys (in maize and blue) that way…

I mostly don't subdivide in that sense. Where there is uniformity (eg. my Romans) it's generally army-wide, or at least all-legionaries-wide (etc).

An exceptions is some Khitans I painted up in a mostly red group, a mostly blue one, a yellow one, and an explosion-in-the-dye-factory one. Partly despair at finding no info at all abotu likely historical colours …

I color code the rim of the bases by platoon, but other than that, no.

Painted some otherwise motley pirates in two groups using just the odd sash, hat-with-feather, or bandolier to mark group.

I plan red and black (Essendon AFL) for my eventual medieval force

My daughter has it pretty easy with Collingwood's black and white …

I think there could be an argument for some kind of uniformity in irregular units. These groups would likely be from the same village, family group or whatever. In the days before national supermarket chains and mass media fashion it could well be that there was less variance in "units" than in the army as a whole, since the availability of dyes and fabrics and fashions would be different in different areas.

My ancient British I did in groups of twelve with trousers all the same color. Then different shield and cape colors.

I think there could be an argument for some kind of uniformity in irregular units.

I think there could be an argument for there being very little difference between regular and irregular units. Given how irregular modern units can look even with access to supplied uniforms and how regular some tribal based armies can look – think Zulus, it is reasonable to assume a similar situation applied in ancient times.

Given how irregular modern units can look even with access to supplied uniforms

Thirteen years in the Navy taught me that "the same color khaki" is a fictional concept. Which is odd, especially within the context of the migration of white and black socks to uniform grey socks in the ship's laundry.

Without wishing to seem argumentative, Fred, the Op wasn't about whether we think there could be a greater degree of uniformity amongst 'irregulars' than we sometimes suppose (on which point I agree) – but whether where (we presumably 'know') there was no uniformity … do we impose an invented one to help distinguish between units.

Just as I believe if we think the troops were a muddle of costume we should depict a muddle, I believe where we suspect greater uniformity, that's what we shold show.

Phil

Yes, sorry Phil, I was thinking out loud. I agree some sort of made up unit distiction for irregular units would be a no no in my book. I just think that a whole irregular army would have a fairly uniform appearance compared with some of the rainbow paint jobs you see at times. With most societies limited to a limited palette of vegetable dyes add to that the effects of dirt and weathering probably means you have a rather drab uniformity of sorts. At the other end as gamers I think we are guilty of depicting regular units too uniformly. Take something like Byzantine Thematic cavalry for example. Given that they supplied their own equipement I suspect there was variation in armour and clothing colours, with uniformity probably limited to some sort of field sign – coloured cloth tied round the helmet or common shield colour/design. what you often see on the table looks like horse guards parade.

Actually, the OP was not based on the presence of knowledge to the contrary, but rather in the absence of knowledge, how you handle color schemes. I can see how the question can be interpreted either way, but not really the example that goes along with it.