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"Miniature Wargaming" Topic

26 Posts

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Action Log

12 Jun 2012 7:50 a.m. PST
by Editor in Chief Bill

  • Crossposted to TMP Poll Suggestions board

28 Nov 2017 8:06 p.m. PST
by Editor in Chief Bill

  • Removed from TMP Poll Suggestions board
  • Removed from Historical Wargaming board
  • Crossposted to Wargaming in General board

1,782 hits since 12 Jun 2012
©1994-2018 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

Personal logo Flashman14 Supporting Member of TMP12 Jun 2012 5:13 a.m. PST

Miniature Wargaming marries two preexisting hobbies: games that model warfare in some way and modeling, or recreating military apparatus and their related entities concretely and in miniature.

Chess, Risk, Advanced Squad Leader, Call of Duty are Wargames but not miniature wargames. Playing with unpainted figures, chits, counters, or any one or two dimensional tokens are not miniature wargaming because they ignore the modeling half. It's gaming alright but not Miniature Wargaming.

Agree or disagree?

Sane Max Inactive Member12 Jun 2012 5:20 a.m. PST

unpainted figures

one or two dimensional
No Flats? Disagree.

Tough call – I agree, but can see why some might not.


cavcrazy12 Jun 2012 5:20 a.m. PST

I would tend to agree.

MajorB12 Jun 2012 5:30 a.m. PST

or any one or two dimensional tokens

I've never ever seen any one dimensional tokens.

Sane Max Inactive Member12 Jun 2012 5:41 a.m. PST

I didn't want to be the Bleeped text that pointed that out. I thought 'Margard will be along soon, leave it to him.'

I like to think some of my older stuff is four-dimensional


OSchmidt Inactive Member12 Jun 2012 5:47 a.m. PST

The statements in the posters intro are just that, statements. Not much to argue with.

There's another shoe waiting to drop. I'll wait till it does.

MajorB12 Jun 2012 5:48 a.m. PST

Neither pedantic, nor picky. Merely a statement of fact.

Personal logo Flashman14 Supporting Member of TMP12 Jun 2012 5:53 a.m. PST

Mea culpa .. was thinking paper lain flat with no height… I know better.

bong6712 Jun 2012 5:55 a.m. PST

Well, if you want some specific labels for different kinds of wargaming then "miniature wargaming" has to be the sort which involves miniatures, of any sort. So you should be able to include games with painted figures, unpainted figures or flats.
Also, it's quite easy to do miniature wargming with bought, non-self painted figures and terrain and pre-made models, they're all easy to buy if you have the cash, it doesn't necessarily need personal artistic input by the participant. Maybe you could call the hobby you describe "self-crafted miniature wargames" or "self-artistic miniature wargames" because it involves miniatures or models which you have made some creative input to.
All the best,

Sane Max Inactive Member12 Jun 2012 6:06 a.m. PST

Neither pedantic, nor picky. Merely a statement of fact.

Puts down cup of Earl Grey Tea, adjusts Cardigan, pushes half-moon glassses up nose, purses lips and says…….

Neither pedantic, nor picky. Merely a statement of fact.

I knew what he meant, and I reckon you did too. grin


79thPA Supporting Member of TMP12 Jun 2012 7:06 a.m. PST

An unpainted miniature is still a miniature.

GildasFacit Sponsoring Member of TMP12 Jun 2012 8:15 a.m. PST

Leave definitions to the Oxford English dictionary – they might care, I don't.

Shagnasty Supporting Member of TMP12 Jun 2012 8:45 a.m. PST

I've always felt an unpainted figure is a "potential" miniature so would agree with the OP.

religon Inactive Member12 Jun 2012 8:51 a.m. PST

And I feel that a cardboard chit is a potential miniature and disagree with the OP.

CPBelt Inactive Member12 Jun 2012 9:31 a.m. PST

I do what the Bleeped text I choose to do and call it what I Bleeped texting choose to call it. Well, there goes 30 seconds of my life I'll never get back.

Yesthatphil Inactive Member12 Jun 2012 10:44 a.m. PST

'Miniature Wargaming' _is the marriage. Not all wargaming uses miniatures, not all miniatures games are wargames.

The use of miniatures or not, the painting of them or not etc. isn't an essential debate to wargaming.

Of course, if you want to get on well amongst circles that present their games with nicely painted figures I'd suggest you conform to that standard (or have a good alternative) otherwise you might risk finding yourself less popular. Nobody has a right to be accepted within amateur enthusiast circles.

Khusrau Inactive Member13 Jun 2012 4:38 a.m. PST

I play games with my own figures I have painted myself. Virtually no exceptions in 35 years. 3 dimensional – but that's the aesthetic I want. I do know I need to do better terrain.

SECURITY MINISTER CRITTER Inactive Member13 Jun 2012 7:15 a.m. PST

System 7 Napoleonics…

Altius Inactive Member13 Jun 2012 7:32 a.m. PST

Agree, more or less.

Personal logo edmuel2000 Supporting Member of TMP13 Jun 2012 9:19 a.m. PST

False dilemma. Who cares?

Omemin Inactive Member13 Jun 2012 11:27 a.m. PST

"Uncle Duke" Seifried called this a hobby/craft/game/toy. I think he was (and is) spot on.

Knight Templar Inactive Member14 Jun 2012 8:09 a.m. PST

Disagree. Too many unpainted miniatures in wargames. They are still miniatures and wargames. But, a new term, "model gaming" would qualify as an "agree": if you are not building models, but merely putting miniatures on the gaming table/board, that is not modeling anything. To qualify as model gaming the pieces must be painted/rendered such that they attempt to model something else, either real or imagined.

Mechanical Inactive Member16 Jun 2012 3:01 p.m. PST

When camping or to test an army, we will use printed paper top downs stuck on MDF bases. We use the same rules as we use when playing with 15mm painted figures. Still miniature war gaming to us. If you disagree that's fine too.

Grand Duke Natokina Inactive Member18 Jun 2012 12:50 p.m. PST

I disagree about the non-painted figures. I don't paint the soft plastic troops because they are generally too bendable.

Personal logo Dasher Supporting Member of TMP28 Jun 2012 4:33 p.m. PST

Details: I want my miniatures rules to require miniatures. In other words, HeroScape, using the advanced rules, has silhouettes of its figures with line-of-sight dots on them to show what part of the figure constitutes being a legal target and what os just a detail. For example, if a swordsman's head is visible, the figure can be targeted. If just his sword, he cannot.
For me, this makes HeroScape more truly a miniatures game than, say, "Hordes of the Things", or "Dirtside" or any other game where the miniatures are simply used for bookkeeping purposes or as nothing more than beautifully detailed counters. (I'm not saying they aren't good or even great games, they just don't strictly require miniatures, while HeroScape does).
By way of explanation, my first miniatures game was "TRACTICS", where line-of-sight, visible portion of a figure and even angle of attack were tremendously important, and nothing helped determine these details like an actual three-dimensional figure on the battlefield (in our case, a sand table).

khanscom01 Dec 2017 3:20 p.m. PST

Printed paper figures are OK and can look more attractive than unpainted plastic or metal. For me, aesthetics are an important part of miniature wargaming.

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