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"Some Flashman news" Topic

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Personal logo John the OFM Supporting Member of TMP10 Jun 2012 6:46 a.m. PST


I heard about this yesterday, and I am not thrilled about it.

I am one of those curmudgeons who does not approve of "other" writers "taking up the torch".
I am one who thinks that a Sherlock Holmes not written by Conan Doyle is an oxymoron.
I do not think that any of the Conan "pastiches" penned by Carter et al ave a shred of a claim to legitimacy.

An exception would be the Cthulhu mythos, where Lovecraft invited others to join in.
I have seen no evidence that GMF passed the torch to Mister Tighe, and until I see it, I will consider this work fraudulent, as well as the ones putting Flashy's uncle in a ship with Cochrane in Napoleonic times, or his g-g-grandson in the Iraq war.

ComradeCommissar Inactive Member10 Jun 2012 7:24 a.m. PST

What an awful cover.

Huscarle10 Jun 2012 7:28 a.m. PST

Hmm, I assume that he has GMF estate's ok & I'm guessing that he is using GMF notes, or is this all off his own bat? Never read any of Tighe's works so I've no idea how good a writer he is, I'll probably give it a try though.

I do agree with your opinion on other lesser authors picking up the master's torch…

Agree about the lamentable cover too!

Chuckaroobob10 Jun 2012 7:38 a.m. PST

I have my doubts about second generation authors, but might give this new Flashman a try. You never know…..

Midpoint Inactive Member10 Jun 2012 8:02 a.m. PST

I would be willing to make some exceptions – Bond novels for example.

Usually it turns out badly though.

axabrax Supporting Member of TMP10 Jun 2012 8:03 a.m. PST

Looks terrible--like some sort of desktop do it yourself publication. And $20.00 USD for a novel? Whole thing has the ring of insulting fraud to it without doubt.

JLA10510 Jun 2012 8:31 a.m. PST

I'm not encouraged by what I saw on Amazon. These newly discovered 'Flashman Papers' may be a fraud.

DaricM Inactive Member10 Jun 2012 8:35 a.m. PST

Check out his other works. It doesn't inspire confidence in the quality of the Flashman book nor it's legitimacy. Can't imagine GMF would pick this guy.

Mapleleaf Inactive Member10 Jun 2012 8:46 a.m. PST

Amazon Page on Barry Tighe to me his "humour" seems a little off


Oh Bugger Inactive Member10 Jun 2012 9:36 a.m. PST

I am not optimistic and somehow the the phrase see you next Tuesday comes to mind.

Norman D Landings Inactive Member10 Jun 2012 9:58 a.m. PST

As far as anyone knows, the collection of oilskin-wrapped manuscripts – discovered in a sale of household goods in a Leicestershire auction room in 1965, and edited for publication by the late Mr. George MacDonald Fraser – was incomplete, and presumably, shall ever remain so.

Any attempt by some hack to 'fill in the blanks' can only ever be mere fiction.

Rapier Miniatures Inactive Member10 Jun 2012 10:06 a.m. PST

As GMF took the torch of Flashman up from another writer, I don't see any issue with it being done to him.

If nothing else, they have to be better than the GMF ones, awful books.

Pentaro Inactive Member10 Jun 2012 10:56 a.m. PST

This doesn't look like a writer chosen by GMF's editors and/or estate to finish his work, but like some guy's cheap attempt (look at that cover!) to make some money. Flashman is a lot older than GMF so, like Holmes and Lovecraft's creatures, probably you don't need anyone's permission to use it.

morrigan Inactive Member10 Jun 2012 12:57 p.m. PST

Did anyone read any of it? You get a preview if you click on it………..

chronoglide Inactive Member10 Jun 2012 2:24 p.m. PST

I bet Kevin J Anderson could bang out one of these in a weekend….then get back to raping Frank Herbert's corpse….

dmclellan Inactive Member10 Jun 2012 3:43 p.m. PST

Check out the publisher

Their "Budding Author Depaerment" has the headline "Welcome to BAD"

Barry Tighe seems to be a frequent flyer in their publications.

More reasons to run away screaming

dmclellan Inactive Member10 Jun 2012 3:50 p.m. PST

Oh My, I forgot to check out the "Who are we" link.

No wonder Mr. Tighe is a frequent contributer to Can Write Will Write – he's the founder of this publisher after receiving multiple rejections from other publishers.

This takes vanity press to a whole deeper level.

Makes me think OFM is on the right track about this author.

MahanMan Inactive Member10 Jun 2012 5:02 p.m. PST

Yeesh. Maybe this board needs an emoticon for being physically ill, because that's how this news makes me feel.

"I Agree With The OFM!"

Frederick Supporting Member of TMP10 Jun 2012 5:10 p.m. PST


I have to say that John and I are on the same page on this one!

dmclellan Inactive Member10 Jun 2012 8:50 p.m. PST

The poison control centers had an emoticon called Mr Yuck.

This one looks right link

Arteis Inactive Member10 Jun 2012 10:45 p.m. PST

A first quick glance through the previewed pages shows them to be, actually, not too bad. Tighe seems to have captured the language and feel OK. I've certainly seen a lot worse.

Personal logo John the OFM Supporting Member of TMP11 Jun 2012 7:36 a.m. PST

I don't care how well written this is or not.
My main objection is that is nothing but self published fan fiction.
Tighe admits that he has no connection with the GMF estate.

Basically, this is one man's take on what flashman did in the ACW. Anyone can write another self ublished fanfic, and totally contradict him.
It is NOT canon, so I will not buy it.
If GMF's daughter, who is a talented writer in her own right, would wish to step into Dad's shoes, I would have no problem with it. THIS however, is an abomination.

Rapier Miniatures Inactive Member11 Jun 2012 8:36 a.m. PST

But but but he has just done what GMF did, take someone elses character and write about him, so GMFs Flashman is fanfic and not canon either. He just happened to get published.

This is inconsistant, you either don't read on qualitive issues or admit your a hypocrite for allowing one person to do it but not another.

Personal logo John the OFM Supporting Member of TMP11 Jun 2012 9:46 a.m. PST

I think the word "hypocrite" is a bit over the top.
I am prepared to accept "inconsistent", but only if you spell it correctly.

What are "qualitive" issues, by the way?

Personal logo John the OFM Supporting Member of TMP11 Jun 2012 9:50 a.m. PST

BTW, I have no problem with other people buying the book. Personally, I refuse to.

Fraser took a minor character from a book in the public domain, and fleshed him out in a very vivid way, in 10 books. I think he "owns" Flashman.
Legally, maybe his claim is not strong. I don't know, I am not a lawyer. However, MORALLY, Flashman belngs to GMF.

Rapier Miniatures Inactive Member11 Jun 2012 10:09 a.m. PST

Qualitive, means you object to the quality of the writing and object on those grounds.

However you seem to be objecting to soemone taking anothers authors work and adding to it, which is what GMF did, so defending one but not the other is…

Personal logo John the OFM Supporting Member of TMP11 Jun 2012 10:46 a.m. PST

I have Googled "qualitive" and can find no such word. "Qualitative" is what the search defaults to.

"… so defending one but not the other is…"
Is WHAT, exactly?

Personal logo John the OFM Supporting Member of TMP11 Jun 2012 10:49 a.m. PST

The bottom line is that I REFUSE to accept this book, and if anyone asks me what Flashman did in the Civil War, I will say that we do not know because the REAL author died before he could write the story.
You can do whatever you want. If that includes supporting a self-publishing fan fic hack, be my guest.

Hughes' Flashman may be in the public domain.
Fraser's is not.

Personal logo The Virtual Armchair General Sponsoring Member of TMP11 Jun 2012 11:48 a.m. PST


Hear! Hear!


sjwalker38 Inactive Member11 Jun 2012 1:53 p.m. PST

"some guy's attempt to make some money" is probably right (but that's all that GMF set out to do, isn't it? – but this is more "cashing in" on someone else's hard work over 30 years) and while the preview is not the worst historical fiction I've read (it's not as bad as the Fonthill series), it doesn't seem to flow like GMF.

Though I'd have loved to read about Flashy's ACW exploits, I suspect that's one episode that even GMF at his best would have struggled to do justice to, and is probably best left forever in the imaginations of the true believers as 'what might have been'.

I'll probably give into temptation, get it and hate myself for it, but I rather hope it sinks without trace.

Sparker Inactive Member11 Jun 2012 3:06 p.m. PST

I think this 'debate' about wether a poster will or will not buy a book suggests that the saying 'a storm in a teacup' is hopelessly underpowered for the average 21st Century westerner's level of self obssession…

I might suggest 'a tsunami in a shot glass'?

BTW, if anyone is remotely interested, I probably won't buy this myself…but not from any moral reasons…

Rapier Miniatures Inactive Member12 Jun 2012 6:59 a.m. PST

Actually John by your definition, GMF morally stole anothers work and passed it off as his own, the fact you like it doesn't make it restaing of anothers book char.

Legally as Tom Browne was out of copyright, he was able to use it, you just got them the wrong way around.

It also means the GMF estate would struggle to defend as stealing a thing, doesn't make it yours in the eyes of the law (unless your very rich or a nation, then its ok).

But don't post whiney posts complaining that one thief stole your favourite thiefs work and isn't it bad wahh wahh wahh.

Personal logo John the OFM Supporting Member of TMP12 Jun 2012 8:19 a.m. PST

And by YOUR reasoning, recasts of your figures should be perfectly OK. After all, all you are doing is taking Parthian reliefs and converting them into 6m lead figures.
And what about recasts of your Zulu War figures, which are more in the timeline of Tom Brown.

Don't post whiney posts when recasts of your ranges turn up on eBay.

sjwalker38 Inactive Member27 Jul 2012 3:21 p.m. PST

So, has anyone read it yet? I've bought it (yes, the cover is awful) and browsed the first few pages – style not as good as GMF at his best, but readable, but somehow it's not a 'page-turner' like the original Flashmans always were…

sjwalker38 Inactive Member02 Sep 2012 12:15 p.m. PST

Well, I persisted with it, and ended up, maybe unsuprisingly, very disappointed. More a poor pastiche of 'Flash For Freedom' that bears no real resemblence to the known 'facts' of Flashman's Civil War service (beyond a brief and contrived meeting with Wild Bill Hickock).

And despite being 350 pages long, it comes to an abrupt end with "continued in volume 2" !

Another attempt to cash in and no more, sadly.

sjwalker38 Inactive Member06 Sep 2012 2:48 p.m. PST

Oh, and while Flashy is normally at the heart of the action, here he is relegated to a 'sideshow' and the book is padded with brief details of what was actually going on in the main theatres while he's wandering around California and the Deep South.

spontoon10 Jan 2013 5:51 p.m. PST

Thanks for all the opinions and debate and saving me from wasting money on this. I was hoping it was taken from unfinished notes from George Macdonald Fraser. It seems that it has no input from Fraser at all, so I shall just pine away for that long awaited, never to be finished title!

sjwalker38 Inactive Member11 Jan 2013 12:49 p.m. PST

No GMF input whatsoever, sadly – and no 'lost manuscripts' I fear.

BUT… I recently picked up a copy of "Mr American": Not a recent book (published 1980) but one I'd never bothered with for now for some reason but now pleased I did.

A nice story with some interesting plot twists, good characters and period feel, and a couple of cameo appearances by Harry Flashman himself (now in his 90's but still a reprobate) it's well worth getting.

Now re-reading and enjoying "Black Ajax" and "The Pyrates" but still cannot bring myself to re-try "The Reivers"

Ramming12 Jan 2013 12:19 p.m. PST

Black Ajax, utter tripe, ditto Pyrates. Funny chap GMF, either diamonds or dross, nothing in between.

sjwalker38 Inactive Member12 Jan 2013 1:06 p.m. PST

Ramming: Very different style from Flashman, I agree, but 'tripe' sounds a bit harsh. Why do you say that?

Ramming13 Jan 2013 4:30 a.m. PST

I tried to read it several times and at different stages in my life, never got beyond the first few chapters. GMF hit the note with Flashman, I don't think, apart from the McCauslan novels, he ever did again. Quartered Safe Out Here, is middling, the rest, IMHO, is crap. Haven't read Reivers but I did read Th Steel Bonnets, OK but just OK.

Ben Waterhouse Inactive Member21 Jan 2013 5:22 a.m. PST

Au contraire, I have yet to find any published work by GMF less than excellent.

sjwalker38 Inactive Member22 Jan 2013 2:15 p.m. PST

"The Reivers" was not great :-(

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