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"28mm artillery limbers . horses or no horses?" Topic


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Personal logo Nashville Supporting Member of TMP03 Jun 2012 7:52 p.m. PST

28mm artillery limbers . horses or no horses

Here is the issue. In 28mm a full team of 4 to 6 horses looks great but consumes a lot of footprint particularly with the gun behind it. Now some folks have the full team but a LOT have only a pair of horses which looks for all the world like a chariot. What about no horses. Just the limber and perhaps a man or two about. Certainly not as dramatic but takes up a lot less space. What is the consensus here?

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cavcrazy03 Jun 2012 8:15 p.m. PST

What I like doing is putting two horses on the base with the limber, and then doing another base with two horses, and then another base with two horses, that way they can be as large a piece as I need it to be.

Personal logo redmist1122 Supporting Member of TMP03 Jun 2012 8:25 p.m. PST

Agree w/cavcrazy. In 15's I just mount all horse on one base, but seperate in 25/28's.

P.

Personal logo Flintloque Supporting Member of TMP03 Jun 2012 8:45 p.m. PST

I ended up going with a variation of cavcrazy's method. My limbers have four horse teams, with an additional base of two to go full size if needed. I can also use the separate bases with unmounted wagons when/if I need an expanded baggage train. Best of all worlds.

A limber without horses is the worst method. Looks like a reenactment! You might as well skip it altogether.

dglennjr03 Jun 2012 8:46 p.m. PST

In 15's, I mount the horses to the base. In 28mm, my horses are in pairs, and on separate bases from the limber.

David G.

bsrlee04 Jun 2012 1:42 a.m. PST

4 horse = foot battery, 6 horse = horse battery. That was pretty universal in pre-motorised armies.

IronDuke596 Supporting Member of TMP04 Jun 2012 6:46 a.m. PST

I use four horse teams for most field artillery up to 12pdrs and six horse teams for 18pdrs and 24pdrs. The limbered team is mounted with the limber along with the gun that is removable. In the unlimbered mode the gun is detached and placed on a gun crew base and the team is place to the rear. Yes, along with an ammo wagon these teams take up a lot of space behind the unlimbered guns but that is somewhat realistic as real depth was around 60m – more if you include anciliary equipment like forage and farrier wagons.

OSchmidt04 Jun 2012 7:31 a.m. PST

Sorry for me the visuals are everything. In my ACW set up I have full 6 horse teams.

I don't put limbers on my 18th century stuff, but I will rectify that soon. That's my next big acquisition. I am presently completing a Turkish 18th century Gun position which has a bed carrier for the enormas barrell, another for the bed on the ground and a 12 ox team to haul it.

Personal logo John the OFM Supporting Member of TMP04 Jun 2012 9:00 a.m. PST

In 28mm a full team of 4 to 6 horses looks great but consumes a lot of footprint particularly with the gun behind it.

Well, that IS the whole point of limbers in a wargame anyway, isn't it? I love them precisely because they DO take up a lot of road space, and mess up our well laid plans.
I see no reason why wargmers' plans should always go the way they want them too, and limbers are good sand in the crankcase.
If they get in the way, they are supposed to, so if you want your artillery reinforcements toot sweet, you pay the price in traffic control.

Personal logo John the OFM Supporting Member of TMP04 Jun 2012 10:05 a.m. PST

There was an SPI boardgame that gave the number of hexees each counter took up in "road mode". Obviously, that precluded stacking.
I thought that was neat and "realistic". So, if your limbers take up 12" on the road, that is a Good Thing. They should, cosidering how much a battery of 4 guns, limbers, caissons, forges, the lunch wagon, etc. took up.

BTW, how about casissons too? grin

Personal logo enfant perdus Supporting Member of TMP04 Jun 2012 2:23 p.m. PST

Precisely what the OFM said. I would also add that being concerned about the vulnerability of limbers and caissons, and especially their horses, is a very realistic problem.

Personal logo Nashville Supporting Member of TMP04 Jun 2012 8:50 p.m. PST

Well I am happy that this is all now settled. My Prussians will not have the 2 horse chariot as I was contemplating but shall retain their 6-horse Limber as was intended. Agreed that is it better; just wanted to see how others were playing in their sandboxes. See below

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pbishop1205 Jun 2012 3:21 a.m. PST

I settle for the 4 horse variety. Caissons and other wagons get 2. I have some carts with one. And like the picture above, my limbers are behind the battery. And not only do they get in the way, as they should, they're susceptible to being hit and causing chaos within the batter. Surrounding units may also be affected.

Looking at the cavalry poised behind the battery and limber above, they are NOT going to advance through that battery without a probability of being disordered, needing to reorder their line once they've passed through. A long and tedious affair, rendering the artillery and cavalry vulnerable while trying to shake out into ordered formations.

All armies drew their artilery and wagons with horses, so I represent it in my games, and accomodate movement, obstruction, footprints, ammo supply, & morale accordingly.

GUNBOAT05 Jun 2012 6:56 a.m. PST

You could do two Horses team in 54mm
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