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"Husky 8, Invasion Plan for Sicily" Topic


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590 hits since 3 Jun 2012
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NOLA Chris Supporting Member of TMP03 Jun 2012 12:55 p.m. PST

Hi all,

Does anyone know any good sites/books with details on the
Husky Plan 8?

I've got the basics from several sources,
(Mitcham and von Stauffenberg, Battle for Sicily,
Morrison, History of US Naval Operations in WW2, vol 9
wikipedia (?))
but am interested in more in depth plans…

could make for some very fun campaigns!
do the US forces get pinned down by 15 PzGr Div?
can 8th Army hold off HG, Napoli, and Livorno?

thanks in advance,

Chris

Arrigo03 Jun 2012 2:22 p.m. PST

Bitter Victory by Carlo D'Este easily the best book on the campaign.

Uhm… the HG and the Livorno were in the US sector the 15 PzGr (Gruppe Schmalz) on the British sector. Basics?

BTW do not hold Morrison on great trust. He had several bad habits in compiling his history, mainly using it to support Admirals who were his friends and sink the other. He is good because he gave you a lot of primary documents and quotes from reports, but double check everything, the Mediterranean book is quite weak as anything dealing with Fletcher (pacific). He had personal problems with Fletcher and he did his best to slight him. There are several comments by Spruance on the subject. Of course this is not of your concern because it is not Sicily!

NOLA Chris Supporting Member of TMP03 Jun 2012 2:44 p.m. PST

Thanks, Arrigo,
I have Bitter Victory at home… somewhere…
just cann't find it lately for references.

The dispositions were from Battle for Sicily,
my mistake misquoting them,
should be elements of 15th PzGr on the west end
(those not with Brigade Schmaltz)
and if the US hit the West End,
HG and Livorno could have been used against 8th army
instead of the US at Licata-Gela

all good "what ifs"

and thanks for the info on Morrison!
I haven't read any of the Pacific volumes yet,
but I'll keep your info in mind when I get to them
Chris

ScottWashburn Sponsoring Member of TMP03 Jun 2012 4:44 p.m. PST

I second Carlo D'este's book. Lots of good info including why the whole 'Sicily Plan' segment in the movie "Patton" is a load of hooey :)

Of course for raw data, you can't do better than the US Army Historical Series "The Green Books". "Sicily and the Surrender of Italy" is the volume you want.

NOLA Chris Supporting Member of TMP03 Jun 2012 5:09 p.m. PST

Thanks , Scott,
I'll add it to the wish list

dmclellan Inactive Member03 Jun 2012 5:29 p.m. PST

Sicily and the Surrender of Italy as a PDF
link

Major Mike03 Jun 2012 5:49 p.m. PST

The board game FAB Sicily offers the Allied player the option of landing the US units at 17 different beaches, the only stipulation is that you must land in only four contigious beaches of the 17.

Arrigo04 Jun 2012 5:53 a.m. PST

If you want a very detailed OoB secure a copy of MMP/Gamers "Sicily: Triumph and Folly). Older and a bit more difficult to procure (but indeed very good) is GMT:Invasion Sicily by Vance von Borries. GMT is also working on a giant monster (Battle for Sicily) by Danny Holte.

Livorno could have been used against eastern beacheads but with a strong change of plans. Guzzoni defense plan allocated it as back stop-counterattack force in the Gela area. Guzzoni wanted quick counterattack against allied Beacheads as soon as possible to exploit confusion rather than massed maneuvers.

The HG… I do not think the HG could have moved against the 8th Army in time judging from its awful performance at Gela. As elite goes that division was baaaaad in Sicily even the GOC Conrath complained. In Patton diary he said that the Italian attack was good the German one pitiful.

ScottWashburn Sponsoring Member of TMP04 Jun 2012 7:40 a.m. PST

On the quality of HG: I seem to recall that HG had some Tigers on Sicily. There is an incident related in "Sicily and the Surrender of Italy" where on the first or second day after the landing a lone Tiger's crew spotted multiple dust clouds coming their way and abandoned their fully-functional Tiger and ran off. The approaching dust clouds were a company of M-3 Stuarts :) (or maybe M-5s, I don't remember).

NOLA Chris Supporting Member of TMP04 Jun 2012 10:55 a.m. PST

Scott – Tigers were attached to HG from 504th Heavy Panzer battalion

Arrigo – I've always wondered about the awefull plan/performance of HG at Gela…
one of the great "what-ifs" to me would be a better
led attack. could really increase the pucker factor for the beach defences

Arrigo04 Jun 2012 3:00 p.m. PST

Chris,

the HG in Sicily was more or less a scrap together formation. The original unit was destroyed in Tunisia and reformed from scratch with some units still in training at the time of the African debacle and unit that had never been able to be shipped (the tanks). The infantry was made of LW personnel (the original infantry were FJ) as their officer (that explain a lot of the problems as a ground combat unit). you do not improvise infantry from ground crew without competent officers. One can only wonder at the wisdom to have an armored division in an air force…

considering how poor the landing had been and how confused the debarkation of reinforcement was a full two divisions (HG and Livorno) could have been devastating. Still you have the little problem that you have to go forward in face of semi-auto 6 and 5 inches guns.

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