 Editor in Chief Bill   | 02 Jun 2012 2:48 p.m. PST |
Writing in Slingshot magazine 277, editor Richard Taylor observes that wargames struggle to represent battles of formal lines as described by the ancient historians, and after a few turns often resemble… …a disorganized ruck with forces scattered across the field… the 'firework' effect of scattered units that wargames often boil down to… Do you agree with his assessment? |
| MajorB | 02 Jun 2012 2:56 p.m. PST |
Try playing Lost Battles. |
| Who asked this joker | 02 Jun 2012 3:47 p.m. PST |
Armati rewards maintaining larger battle groups and lines. I'll also second Lost Battles for games where you can keep lines fairly easily. Other games that can be "gamed" will often have a wild disorganized look such as this. |
 miniMo  | 02 Jun 2012 4:12 p.m. PST |
No. Not playing DBA and Big Battle DBA.
Going all fireworks is a quick way to lose a battle against formed lines. |
| ochoin deach | 02 Jun 2012 7:14 p.m. PST |
Yes, often a "disorganised ruck"…..just before you get hammered. FoG will not take kindly to allowing your army to dissolve piecemeal. |
| Shardik | 02 Jun 2012 10:45 p.m. PST |
It can easily happen with "unit-based" rules, even if you do your best to keep your units initially in an ordered battle line. When the opposing lines come into contact, units get broken, gaps appear, and victorious units turn to attack the flank of the neighbouring unit. It does seem to contradict ancient battle reports, where the whole battle line or wing breaks, not bits and pieces of it. Element bases rules seem slightly less susceptible to the fireworks effect |
| Grand Duke Natokina | 03 Jun 2012 1:20 p.m. PST |
I am a devotee of linear warfare. |
| jameshammyhamilton | 03 Jun 2012 2:13 p.m. PST |
Can ancients games end up with a fireworks effect? Yes Is it right? IMO No Why does it happen? IMO it is the result of too much maneuverability combined with the gods eye view of the wargamer. I have seen the effect in pretty much every set of Ancients rules I have played be they element or unit based. |
| TNE2300 | 05 Jun 2012 7:57 a.m. PST |
I once heard ancient battles described as:
"choreographed riots" |
| John the Selucid | 05 Jun 2012 10:05 a.m. PST |
I think the firework effect is most often caused by the composition of the army and the emphasis that is put on the differences between troop types in turns of movement rates and maneuverability.
I remember early army lists that tended to include only 2 or three troop types for many armies, and a single book covering the whole ancient period.
Probably at the demand of players army lists now seem to include every troop type that was ever available to an army and players like to include many exotic types.
It is perhaps no wonder that these armies are difficult to control and perhaps this does reflect history. The successful armies in history tended to be fairly homogeneous (or keep the more unpredictable elements out of the way while the real fighting went on) while the more diverse armies often fell into confusion, such as the Selucid's at Magnesia.
Of course there were exceptions, such as the Carthaginian army under Hannibal, but we can't all be a battlefield genius |
