"Alternatives for Warhammer Fantasy / Mordheim" Topic

Greetings everyone! As the title states, I'm looking for alternative systems to Warhammer Fantasy and Mordheim. I'm not particularly interested in giving Games Workshop any more of my money after 5 40k armies, a large number of mordheim warbands, and multiple rules iterations. It's time to explore other frontiers.

I'm curious as to what other people are playing. However, for mordheim substitutes, don't worry about suggesting Song of Blades and Heroes or Warrior Heroes. SBH is just a little more simplistic than I wanted, though I liked it conceptually. And I'm just not interested in the 2 Hour Wargames system after playing All Things Zombie extensively.

The systems currently on my radar are Armies of Arcana, Kings of War, and Savage Worlds Showdown for a mordheim sub. Thanks for any thoughts and opinions you can share!

What, more specifically, are you looking for?
Small scale fantasy?

My current favourite is Bushido
bushido-thegame.com
A very neat game of small scale japanese fantasy.
Have a look and give it try – the rules and stat cards are available for free here:
bushido-thegame.com/livingfaq

Sorry Henrix, good point.

I'm looking for two things.

The first is a medium to large scale fantasy game, geared primarily to 28mm scale though 15mm is a remote possibility as well.

The second is a fantasy skirmish ruleset. This must be geared to 28mm, and I prefer one with a robust campaign system, which is why I've been looking in to Savage Worlds. A RPG background certainly allows for advancement.

Thanks for the reminder on Bushido… I've heard good things but had forgotten about it. I'll check it out!

There is always Kings of War from Mantic for your large scale games. I've heard good things about their rules. Not so favorable about their miniatures.

I also like No Quarter for a free set of rules. It will work for small skirmish games and bigger large scale games.

Both of these systems are free.

If you enjoy GW games, there are alternatives to GW itself. I have always resisted getting caught up in the whole thing, but recently took up Warhammer Fantasy.

I play 3rd edition and buy all my figures from eBay. So far it is working well for me!

My friend and I play mordheim in 15mm… fun!

No Quarter has the scope, scale, and some similarity to WFB. I would look at it if you like fantasy games of roughly that size. Free. Lots of diagrams in the rules.

And I'm just not interested in the 2 Hour Wargames system after playing All Things Zombie extensively.

ATZ is nothing like Warrior Heroes. Contrary to what some people are led to believe THW games are not the same and each set is heavily tweaked to reflect the period.

Take a look at the free Swordplay. If you've played ATZ you will see that they are not at all close to being the same game.

link

There's a lot of rules out there so I'm sure you'll find something that works.

If you find Song of Blades and Heroes too simplistic to replace your fantasy skirmish, then you will probably find Kings of War too simplistic to replace your mass battles game.

I am finding Armies of Arcana a good replacement for my mass games.

Oh thanks for the info on No Quarter, I'll check that out. My group tested out No Limits a while back and it didn't fly, maybe the fantasy scene will go a little better.

I could also check out an earlier edition of WFB. I just don't like the fiddliness of the newer edition and the fact that some models / armies are just plain old worthless. I'll admit that my anti-GW bias plays into my selection a bit.

Ed – thanks for the info, I'll check it out. Don't get me wrong, I didn't say that to imply I didn't enjoy ATZ… I actually loved it. Played it all solo. I was just looking for something different, and assumed that there was similarity there.

Tinyminis – That's exactly what I'm afraid of. I like the concept of the chess clock and timed turns, but I am very concerned that it swung back into the realm of too simple.

Napalm Backflip – Nope, didn't take it as a negative comment as you're right. ATZ would make a crappy sword and sorcery game. Good luck on the search.

I play Warrior Heroes Armies and Adventures (WHAA) a lot and enjoy the game. It is easy to play, and plays well at small skirmishes up to very large skirmishes/small battles.

Isn't there the Malifaux systems, Hell Dorado and Carnivale, for skirmish level games

No Quarter is probably *better* for gang skirmish than it is for mass battles (because it uses action points).

A lot of people are in your shoes, including me. I would take an assessment of what you really liked about WFB and go from there. Either find a rule system that comes close to those qualities or take a previous edition of WFB and house rule it. I have a list of game systems that I have seen from this site on my blog here:

link

Personally, I have heard a lot of good things about Armies of Arcania and I really do want to try it out at some point.

Well if Warrior Heroes and SOBH are out I would suggest Battlesystem, it's still a fun game and fairly inexpensive. Or Rebel minis Mighty Armies rebelminis.com/miarfaru.html for 15mm.

If you prefer single based minis Fantasy Warriors I've heard is decent link

I'm using Mighty Armies for the Warhammer universe, albeit in 6mm. It's element based with a default 50mm basewidth, so figure scale doesn't really matter. But the basewidth is flexible too, I'm halving everything and using 25mm bases.

Armies of Arcanna is a fun game.

As for skirmish games with a campaign system, have you looked at Chaos in Cairo/Carpathia?

Chuck

Kings of War is very nice. You can field a lot of 28mm stuff very quickly as units stay in blocks and the rules are extremely fast-play.

We are in the same boat – bunch of GW figs we've painted up, some to a very high standard (too high to hock on eBay) and a love for the fluff but we all hate the games now.

If you like the GW community, if you like the GW size, if you like the Mass-Battle aspect, but no longer want to play the rules and instead want to play tactics and your opponent, then Kings of War is a MUST try. The rules are a FREE download, and there's plenty of support. Also, as v.3 comes out in a month, those rules will continue to be FREE updated also, according to the owner.

Trying to convince everyone to buy a $50 USD set of rules is touch. Trying to convince everyone to download 25 pages of black and white print was easy. And because the game is designed by Allessio Cavatore, nearly all the armies are streamlined versions of GW equivilents.

It's pretty hard to go wrong with trying that.

For skirmish, I'd have suggested Warrior Kings and Song of Blade and Heroes, but…
:)

Thanks for the wealth of suggestions everyone. I'm going to try Kings of War out hopefully soon. As you say, it's much easier to convince a group to try a game in which the rules are free as opposed to plunking down $30 USD-50 bucks for a rulebook alone.

Chuck05, thanks for that name, I haven't heard of that one. Looking in to it!

An older but very good fanatsy skirmish game is Battlelust. Very low magic, realistic combat, but I think it works really well, and has a good advancement system as well. Another to look into is Havoc by Voodoo Ink, which has gotten some excellent reviews but I haven't got a copy of the rules yet.

If you like Warhammer or Merdheim, why not stick with the rules, but get other figures?

@Napalm Backflip: No problem. Chaos in Carpathia is a gothic hoor setting with werewolve, vampires and monster hunters. It would be easy to modify it to suit your needs.

Chaos in Chairo is more of a pulp set but does include mummies as one of the wawrbands.

pphalen – It's the exact opposite. I love GW models (with the exception of the price), but I think the rulesets are generally very weak.

This thread was a bad idea. My shopping cart is filling up haha.

I hate it when that happens NB. :)

Have you tried Warmaster (hey, the rules are free to download and haven't been changed in several years to the best of my knowledge) with Warhammer-scale figures?

Same setting, the minis you've painted to high standards, and a game engine that actually feels like a BATTLE, not a skirmish. (units fight in Warmaster, not individual figures)

I mean, that's basically what Hail Caesar/Pike&Shotte/Black Powder is!

An oldie but reportedly returning is Confrontation for skirmish level games. I'd suggest the 3.0 version of the rules, and most of the cards can be downloaded for free. The Dogs of War book adds a campaign system.

Or another option is Gloire for a more swashbuckling feel.

As for mass combat, I do like Armies of Arcana. Chronopia is another OOP system that I think can be downloaded for free from Mutantpedia, but might be a different site.

Chronopia is more of a skirmish game than a mass battle game.

Lots of great suggestions in here. I have a number of test games coming up. A friend who is a historical fanatic has convinced me to try Hail Caesar. We'll see if that satisfies the mass combat desire.

I'm waiting to receive a rulebook for Reaper Warlord for some skirmish testing. Very few people seem to talk about that one, but everything I've heard about the 2nd edition has been positive.

Well you do have a list to look at.
For Mordhiem replacement I will say hands down SoBH with the Song of Deeds and Glory add on. But then why replace Mordheim as it is free? I have moved to SoBH and SoDG my self, but I have every MD book I have every picked up.

Next mass combat rules. I have been playing Chipco's Fantasy rules for years and just started to look for a replacement in the past few months.
I have come up with two Pride of Lions, and Rally Round the King. Both of these games are great and under $20.00 USD. I my self wanted to see a play test of them but try as I did I could not find any video of these games.

So for me I am back to Fantasy rules. I can go as big as I want with these rules, and they are fast and simple. Chipco just need to face the fact they are older and if the want to keep selling they MUST lower their price. Say $10. USD for FR!3, with the TCE.

I wish you luck, but try and not house rule some thing, as you will not find others to play with when you do that.

Noel

mass battle? Kings of War, hands down.

I just did a post on this the other day on the warhammer forum.

KoW is not to my taste.

Basic Impetus fantasticus is free.
Download basic impetus and the fantasy mods from the dadi and piombo site ( Italian ).

I started work on an add on to full Impetus, but stopped due to lack of interest from players.
You can take a look at my ideas here:
link

Then there's hordes of the thing which is based on dba. I think that's a free download.
These are all element orientated games – as is kings of war. KoW is a buckets of dice game. Not exactly the most elegant element v element system mechanism. IMO.

There's fantasy piquet. A command control system and friction seem to be a foreign concept to many fantasy players though. So read up on it first.

Hordes of the thigs is free now, I think.

Grenadiers Fantasy Warriors isn't bad. That's also a free download.

Oh and war of the ring.
Some good mechanics in there but dodgy bits in the lists and heroes.
Rip out the bad bits and replace with better ones and you're done.

"mass battle? Kings of War, hands down."

I agree, absolutely

and actually thanks to Kickstarter, you can buy a huge army at 1$/miniature, last 5 days!

I can second most of the suggestions here. for skirmish games though, I would add in an oop gem called chronopia. rules are free.

Due to 8th Edition, I'm phasing out of Warhammer.

Since most of my figures are based on magnets, I've been just putting them on stands and playing Hordes of the Things (well really Hordes + DBA 3.0). What a relief, fast fun, "historical" (so you can play in low magic worlds like George Martin's Ice and Fire).

I've added in rules for troop quality, banners, muscians etc.

Can't understate the vast improvement in gaming experience…

TomT