"Which ruleset best captures chariot tactics?" Topic

I know, there's not a lot of consensus on how chariots were used, but which rulesets get into some detail and give you a tactical feeling for how chariots could be used?

Impetus do a very good job I think.

DBA

Field of Glory: "best" is hard. i can only judge from the Ancients' rules I know.

none, they all have chariots stop on contact with other chariot units and fight a 70's holywood style stationary melee

War and Conquest.

Ancient warfare!

The rule set I like best is the one I would suggest for this. It has all the qualities you ask for, and none of the drawbacks. It handles any size game like a dream, from 1 figure a side up to 1:1 scale refights of the largest battles imaginable. No other suggestion is worth considering.
Pat

I was going to recommend the old AHGC chariot racing game which was brilliant, but then I realised you meant in battles….

DBA probably does as good a job as any other, Lost Battles just treats them as a sort of cavalry.

Explaining why you beleive a particular rule set works for chariot warfare would be helpful.

Lol, Twilight Samurai, you think?

OP – "What Ruleset do you think best repersents the Northern Horse-Archers of the 6th and 7th centuries in Europe – already have WAB and FOG, what else is there?"

"FoG"
"Flames of War"
"WAB"
"FoG"
"Maurice"
and of course,
"The rule set I like best is the one I would suggest for this. It has all the qualities you ask for, and none of the drawbacks. It handles any size game like a dream, from 1 figure a side up to 1:1 scale refights of the largest battles imaginable. No other suggestion is worth considering."

Pat

I rather enjoyed Jim Wallams game of battles between Ancient British tribes where the main function of chariots was for you to show off your warrior prowess with ever increasing outrageous and dangerous driving/acrobatic stunts. Or fall flat on your face.

Hey Martin it's Jim Wallman heres the link

jimwallman.org.uk/wargame

K.B

Keranous, that's what I expected, but I was hoping that there might be one set out there that did it differently.

Moomin, I have no idea what youare talking about. It sounds like youareliving in an alternate discussion thread.

Twilight, thanks, I really was hoping here for some discussion of why specific rulesets work well for chariots,but I didn't actually say that in my OP, so I guess I got just what I asked for…

Have to counter-vote against DBA. I like DBA a lot, but chariots are weakness in the system.

They are treated just like regular mounted troops, just on deeper bases. And even with that, I think it works better treating Light Chariots like Light Horse instead of Cavalry, and Heavy Chariots like Cavalry instead of Knights.

The Scythed Chariots are good, more so with the 2.2+ amendments.

One of the projects I want to get to this summer is to go back through my chariot warfare library, take systematic notes, and see if I can come up with more charioty-flavour rules for DBA.

I think you already took a big step in that direction:

I think it works better treating Light Chariots like Light Horse instead of Cavalry, and Heavy Chariots like Cavalry instead of Knights.

Doug

Why not have a local rule which says they pass through the opposing line?
What happens then is they turn around and do the same.
Or, they skirmish like horse archers advancing and retreating..

Just a thought.

Impetus models the momentum needed for chariots to be effective well. One has to make good decisions about when to wheel and move towards the enemy.

One might also ask are you talking about chariots as taxis, showboating platforms, missile platforms or as melee/impact vehicles or a combination?

Impetus is, I believe, mostly impact and missile units that require momentum to be effective. Chariots can 'run over' or scatter smaller units but doesn't really models the pass by or pass through that some people may like.
Missile units can fire prior to charging as well and can shoot 360 degrees.

Although I have never played them, alledgedly "King David" models them well, possibility of crashes etc.

Phil

There was a very interesting chariot set published by Ian Russell=Lowell in Slingshot called 'Rein Bow Warriors' which modelled chariots rather well, but I'm not sure the complete rules were ever published.
Some very nice ideas about modelling the morale effect of chariots on Bronze Age soldiers.

Given last year's SoA Battle Day was Kadesh, it might be worth looking at the relevant Slingshots (containing all the battle reports, and if you have access) and working out which one "felt" best in terms of outcome. There may be write-ups elsewhere of course.

- Kadesh with Armati, by Will Whyler (Issue 277, July 2011)
- Wargaming Kadesh using Warmaster Ancients, by Jeremy Giles (277)
- Kadesh using Peltast and Pila, by Daivid Barnsdale (277)
- A Warlord Kadesh, by Richard Harper (277)
- Kadesh with Giant DBA, Impetus and Warmaster, by Martyn Simpson (277)
- Kadesh with Lost Battles, by Philip Sabin (278, September 2011)
- Kadesh with Command & Colors: Ancients, by Andrew Lawrence (282, May 2012, upcoming)

(note, for anyone wondering – the SoA website is currently unreachable due to a DDOS attack on our hosting provider – should apparently be back up later today)

Another rule set represented at the 2011 SOA Battle Day was Hail Caesar, which also won the award for Best Game of the day:
link

I couldn't locate an online write-up for the HC Kadesh game at Battle Day 2011, but I did find two other online AARs for refights of Kadesh using Hail Caesar:
link
link

Cheers,
Scott

In War & Conquest, chariots (except scythed ones) cannot engage 'formed' units (neither can skimishers for that matter).
They can make glancing attacks however, and then move on by once the strikes are resolved. Play testers (and subsquently players) describe this as a 'drive by shooting'. It keeps the chariot movement fluid and the game dynamic.

The target does get a chance to hit back. Depending on casulaties caused by either side will dictate if any morale test is required.

Therefore chariots we would expect to be modelled as 'shooters' (eg New Kingdom Egyptian) are best not sent in to make glancing attacks, the risk outweighs the reward and they should keep shooting at distance.

Chariots where we might expect a closer combat role can have a profile that rewards taking the risk, as in better a actual fighting, think Ancient Brit nobles.

kind regards
Rob Broom
scarabminiatures.com
warandconquest.co.uk