"Colour of Napoleonic Artillery - US Artillery" Topic

I happened to be on this site:

link

I noted the US artillery as given as olive green with black fittings.

Now this is correct for the Civil War but the guns at Historic Ft Snelling representing the US army in 1827 has the guns painted in light blue with black fittings.

historicfortsnelling.org

Which is correct?

You sometimes need an expert for that sort of thing.

if the colours don't run that is good.

The Ranger who is the curator of the Horseshow bend (1813) Military Park told me that the carriages were painted a mix of Prussian blue 50% and lead white 50%. The metal fittings were painted black.

US adopted olive green with black fittings in the 1820s.
Stephen

So it almost sounds like the gray used by British carriages during the Revolution?
Larry

Freeman, that's been my findings.

U.S. guns were light blue for the War of 1812. In Military Uniforms in America Years of Growth 1796-1851 by the Company of Military Historians pg 87 shows the guns of 1825-1832 still painted in light blue.

Some guns were pressed into service directly from their French suppliers which could explain examples in olive green.

I use French guns when I am short for Americans.

Dear Tod
When during the War of 1812 did the French supply guns to the US. This is new to me. Most US guns at this time were cast iron on modified Muller carriages rather than Gribeauval.

US inherited Spanish Gribeauval field guns that would have been painted light blue when they bought Louisiana from the French. It is unlikely that the French had time to transport guns and paint there.

There are so many inconsistencies that need to be sorted out with ordnance.
Stephen

Yeah I knew that was reference I should have kept around. I read it earlier this year when I was researching American gun colours – when I find it again I will post here.

I use Prussian guns when I am short for the Americans.

The Georgian force had two artillery guns. They were mounted on naval four wheel truck carraiges. They were carried to battle on wagons and unloaded each night for the camp. One of the Georgian cannon was captured from the british at Saratoga in 1777.

The Horseshow Bend military park website has a good photo of the guns and their color. Notice the gun is on a sturdy dual trail. The carriage for bot hthe 3pdr and the 6pdr were the same size.
Do the Horseshoe bend battle search then hit images for a fast check.

By the way guns from the French, I had never heard of before either.

The French supplied artillery to the United States in the Revolution. These pieces were undoubtedly the older Valliere pieces and not of the new Gribeauval design.

I have seen no evidence whatsoever that the French supplied field pieces and ancillary equipment to the US during the War of 1812 or before.

Rochambeau's expeditionary force was equipped with the new Gribeauval guns-both field and siege.

In the illustration facing page 36 in Years of Growth, 1896-1851 in the Military Uniforms in America series published by the Company of Military Historians is a field piece of the period 1812-1813 which is in the green shade of paint common to French field pieces of the period. The correspondence of Colonel Decius Wadsworth, the US Army's Chief of Ordnance, indicates that US field carriages were being constructed on the French model, which indicates that dark green may have been the color for the US carriages also.

The United States Army partially adopted the Gribeauval System in 1809-for field carriages, caissons, and other vehicles. The gun tube designs were probably not adopted as the US had plenty of ordnance of other designs, principally British, on hand. Iron was also adopted for field piece construction instead of bronze by Secretary of War Henry Dearborn before the war.

Harold Peterson, in Roundshot and Rammers, indicates that field gun carriages were painted light blue/blue gray instead of dark green. It could very well have been a combination of both colors depending on where the field pieces were being employed and where the gun carriages were being constructed.

Sincerely,
Kevin

As ever a difficult area to sort out. Alas there are no extent carriages as far as I am aware.

1. What physical evidence is there that the Gribeauval iron axle was adopted by the US for the War of 1812? None of the illustrations that I have seen still have the wooden axle.
2. None of the illustrations show the classic Gribeauval wheel design and are still based upon Muller.

Stephen

Perhaps you should take a look at Peterson and the current US artillery manual of the period, Tousard's American Artillerist's Companion. Its third volume is all illustrations.

The US wheel design was basically Gribeauval's-the difference was that the iron tire around the wheel was in one piece and shrunk to size instead of using separate pieces of ironwork to encase the wheel.

Sincerely,
K

Dear Kevin
Yes I have looked. Tousard is a proposal rather than drawing of what was used. The construction of the US Gun wheel was not the same and the axle was wood.
Stephen

Not according to Peterson-the iron axle was adopted by the United States. It may not have been universal, but it was adopted. Again, the Gribeauval System was partially adopted by the United States.

Tousard's manual is not a proposal-it was used by the US Army as its period artillery manual.

Sincerely,
K

Again all you have to do is a google search for Horseshoe Bend Military park. Click on Images and on the first page are several thumbnail photos of the artillery used from several angles. it is quite simple and not much controvery. there was more disagreement over the uniform of the artillerymen in the Southern campaign.

This is the gun from Historic Ft Snelling that prompted the question – shows iron axle.

Here's the gun Rudy quotes:

link

Looks like a wooden outer covering, done know if there is an internal iron axle as on the civil war guns.

Can I assume that the colour of the gun carraige is correct for 1812?

If the gun carriage is correct at light blue, are there other colour errors on this site?

link

They have a 6 pdr that it is fired during festivals and anniversaries of the battle. The crew wear the Tenn gunners outfit.
This past year they added a number of large murials around the battlefield. They were done by IIRC Rocco. I have not checked the gift shop for copies.

If you check the gift shop give us a heads-up.

Sincerely,
K

Try this one in French, but has a photo:
link

From the photos we have so far

1. One Gribeauval 4-pdr carriage with an iron 6-pdr
2. Two British Muller style carriages with iron 6-pdrs

It is still unclear as to what carriages were used by the US Army in the War of 1812.It would be nice to know.

This shade of blue reminds me of Spanish Ordnance [Naples Blue] rather than the mixture of Prussian Blue and White Lead.

Stephen

I commented on the naval truck carriages that the Georgia State troops used in an above post. The Tennessee State troops used the one shown above at Horseshoe bend. a dual trail.

I am not sure about the cannon captured at Mobile or later at Pensacola. British would be a good guess. pensacola had one Spanish gun in the town and british manned guns at the coastal forts.