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"Tomorrow's War: first go at The Downed Pilot" Topic


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1,092 hits since 28 May 2012
©1994-2014 Bill Armintrout
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cafard Inactive Member28 May 2012 6:54 a.m. PST

After getting the rules a fair while ago, i finally got to try Tomorrow's War at the weekend, attempting the first "Putting it all together" scenario pitting infantry vs infantry. It was more about getting into the rules than anything but it certainly gave us a good idea of what (not) to do with inferior troops, as well as why it doesn't necessarily pay to be too careful when you're in a hurry.

Report and pictures: link

Boy, do these D6 troops go down fast against D8 quality! And that was without any fancy stuff like power armour or else, just regular rifles, SAWs and medium support weapons on both sides. It's going to take some time to learn how to play the inferior side!

I'm wondering though, is it possible that i missed something obvious? Or is that scenario incredibly tough for DPRGs if you don't pull out a perfect ambush?

Personal logo Goober Supporting Member of TMP28 May 2012 7:20 a.m. PST

Nope. I had the same result when we played it. We actually called the game before the end as the DPRG player was so fed up of just having his troops get shot up.

See here: link

G.

panzerCDR28 May 2012 7:26 a.m. PST

Funny you should mention this as my son and I played our first game of Ambush Alley this weekend as well. Two USMC fireteams wiped our every single insurgent I could throw at them with nary a casualty. It was a learning game and I am sure we missed a LOT of stuff, but D6 troops don't last long against D8 ones.

GR C1728 May 2012 7:34 a.m. PST

Try giving the DPRGs an extra squad next time. Numbers can help. Although as this was from the book they may have wanted you to see how tough the differance can be and that you need to play inferior troops carefully.

cafard Inactive Member28 May 2012 7:47 a.m. PST

Ha, if the aim of the scenario was to feel the impact of TQ difference, it certainly did the job. I think we may be looking at a D8 vs D8 scenario next time, to get a better feel of the reaction tactics before diving again into lower quality.

Can't follow your link Goober, it wants me to identify into blogger and looks like a post edit link.

Greg B Inactive Member28 May 2012 8:13 a.m. PST

Cafard we had a similar experience, slaughter of the DPRG.

This was a poor introductory scenario, but these really are entertaining rules. Our first go through with them was very rough, but the second one was a ton of fun.

Our first go: link

Our second go: link

Happy gaming!

Kealios28 May 2012 10:19 a.m. PST

My first go at TW:
link

My home made scenario for my second go:
link

I havent played since, although its not for lack of desire. I have been waiting for their points system to come online, and I havent played much else lately either due to Real Life. I'll give it another shot again, Im sure, but its not on the front burner.

Ghostrunner28 May 2012 10:28 a.m. PST

I don't dispute that D8 over D6 is a huge advantage, but in this case, didn't the insurgents win based on the victory conditions?

The 8-turn limit is intended to make the Marines have to charge straight into the fight, even as far as forgoing effective use of cover to get to the pilot and back again.

Admittedly, it's a bit like tying one arm behind a fighter's back, but that is kind of the point.

pzivh43 Supporting Member of TMP28 May 2012 10:52 a.m. PST

The insurgents always have a hard time, and usually end up getting shot to pieces/ Key is what the victory conditions are. The insurgent player can win if the regular player is happy just shooting up insurgent cells.

The G Dog Fezian28 May 2012 11:02 a.m. PST

You gotta stay on mission with TW/AA. Just keep telling yourself "a win is a win."

klepley Supporting Member of TMP28 May 2012 1:07 p.m. PST

Just like in real life…insurgents (even large groups) will and should lose against trained troops. Many of our games have time limits, and objectives. If the trained forces can't do these objectives, then they have lost the game. If you are going to play insurgents, plan to die, plain and simple… Great game!

agrippavips28 May 2012 1:54 p.m. PST

Yes, there is a completely different mindset you have to don if you are chosen as the Insurgent. We play with an umpire. Umpire explains carefully the Victory conditions to each side privately, then emphasizes to the Insurgents that ambushes and mobility is their friend. The insurgents must stay hidden as long as they can to force the enemy to a cautious approach. Open fire from Ambush. Do not declare all hidden units at once. Defend in depth. Have fallback positions for survivors. You cannot hold any position against regulars. You can win if you cause casualties. Pick on Sniper and MMG teams as targets as their defence dice are miserable and the inexperienced enemy thinks they are strong. You can assault them if they are in the front line. You have a chance to win as long as you have a single reserve unit.

MKGipson28 May 2012 3:28 p.m. PST

You have experienced what many people have a hard time about (at first) with Tomorrow's war and Force of Force – true mission-oriented gaming. As the insurgents it does not matter if you lose 99% of you forces as long as you achieve your objective. Yeah, D6 TQ vs D8 TQ is imbalanced. It is supposed to be. If you play your D6 troop quality forces like "Regulars" (D8) then you are in for an unpleasanty experience. If you treat them like sneaky, barely-trained and badly armed peasants then you are doing it right. Sneak, hide, ambush, run (if they can). Then the next group does the same thing. In this scenario the "Dear Leader" expects results – the cost does not matter.

Yeah, toss in an extra D6 squad or two before you try making it D8 vs D8. If you REALLY want to make it hard for the downed pilot's rescuers then set up hot spots and have the D6 troops randomly spawn there.

cafard Inactive Member29 May 2012 1:44 a.m. PST

Yes, it became perfectly clear at the end that it was a close call points-wise (3 for the Marines for making contact, 2 for the DPRGs for one KIA Marine), though it didn't feel like it during the game. Less taking cover and more rapid movement will be the order of the day for the rematch of this one.

As for D8 vs D8, i meant going for a scenario pitting regulars on both sides, not upgrading the DPRGs to D8 in this one.

At any rate, it was our first go at a simultaneous action minis ruleset, and it was quite a breath of fresh air.

BaldLea29 May 2012 4:56 a.m. PST

We played this recently. The Marines won but it went right up to the full 6 turns with the pilot escaping on turn 6.

There were three events in the game that, had they gone the other way, would likely have meant a DPRG win.

Use the ambushes cautiously and consider suppression fire to slow the Marine advance and kill time.

Shark Six Three Zero Inactive Member29 May 2012 7:46 a.m. PST

We also played it. I got close with the Marines but missed the exit off of the board by one turn. The best advantage for the D6 is the ambush but it isn't a game of survival for D6 units. They are expendable to the last. If htey are not getting wiped out (and delaying the Marines) then thet are not doing their job.

(Jake Collins of NZ 2) Inactive Member01 Jun 2012 2:25 p.m. PST

Hmm, many people writing as if the DPRG troops in this scenario are insurgents. They are not – they are regular troops and this is a regular-versus-regular scenario. Maybe some of the comments do apply to an insurgent scenario, but its pretty tough as the DPRG commander when you supposedly have regulars.

MKGipson01 Jun 2012 6:10 p.m. PST

Collins, if you treat them like insurgents you will be, I think, using them better. They have the HUGE advantage over insurgents of not needing a "leader" in each unit in order to activate independently. An insurgent group with no leader has to roll a troop quality check in order to be activated.

Battle Brush Sigur Inactive Member03 Jun 2012 8:45 a.m. PST

Very interesting. I also did my first two games of TW in May and the result of the first game was very much like everybody else's apart from the fact that the Marines lost. They wiped out all DPRG fireteams but weren't left with enough time to get the pilot (or in my case "local holy man"; I adapted it to use for 6mm 40k miniatures) off the table.

I'd love to play the scenario again though, maybe with 28mm figures this time and now knowing what I didn't know back then. I think that playing the d6 troops requires you to rethink your whole approach to wargaming I think while playing the Marines is very straightforward (I played both sides because I'm a sad, lonely man :p ). Suppression fire and generally delaying tactics are greatly advised.

I agree though- proabably the scenario is meant to illustrate the huge difference between TQ and I think that the gap between D6 and D8 troops is even bigger than between d8 and d10 because you'll fail your checks SO often with d6.

Maybe a scenario before that would have been nice, pitting two d8 quality sides versus each other.

Personal logo Goober Supporting Member of TMP28 Nov 2012 11:08 a.m. PST

Updated link from my earlier post:

link

G.

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