"Snipers and artillery, when did their relationship begin?" Topic

I cant remember where but I think someone once told me that during WW2, snipers were not used for spotting for artillery. Fast forward to modern day and it seems that snipers are not only used for their offensive support but also for their spotting capabilities. Just wondering around what time the relationship between snipers and artillery came to being (guessing around the time personal long range communication became common?)

I can not say for sure but as a former Sniper on a team we had extensive training as well doing calls for fire, (9 lines) and LTDs. Grenada we had a CCT guy with us but we all were qualified to do FDC, FO, and CAS missions. I know in the 18B series MOS it goes back as far as the old 11Bs in the Vietnam Era.
VR
James Mattes

Smaller, lighter radios that could be operated with less training would seem to be the key to it though having the role of forward observers spread out would be important. The latter dates to WW II for the American army I believe but I know too little about radios to make any useful suggestions about the former.

In the book "If you survive" by George Wilson, he descibes a situation where a german sniper was directing mortar fire at his company command team (him and his RTO) forcing him to reposition every couple of minutes. So I wouldn't say that it didn't happen in WWII but it certainly wasn't common. As Klingsor says, radio technology has much to do with it.

I might also suggest that the sniper's superior fieldcraft and trained eye for distance estimation (often backed up by a meticulous range card) would make them a natural partner for artillery.

Gunny Hathcock used to do it in Nam, so at least that early.

Today Marine Corps snipers are primarily found in platoons called scout sniper platoons in Infantry Battalions. That platoon is subordinate to the S-2 and serve a vital part of the units reconnaissance and surveillance plan.

Yes, they do precision fires, but they are also trained to scout out enemy positions, guide friendly forces, and call for fire.

Being able to control fires while remaining concealed provides great advantages.

They are often used to protect the main body by providing early warning and confuse/deceive the enemy as to location of friendly forces.

Using snipers to force enemy vehicle commanders to button up before they enter the kill zone is a pretty classic component of anti-armor ambushes.

Yes, with the wide use of radios, probably about later WWII Snipers, Scouts, etc. were able to call for fires from FA & mortars. Then later CAS and even Naval fire support.

back as far as the old 11Bs in the Vietnam Era

Yes, pretty much all 11Bs, I was one then 11A, '79-'90 were trained to call in mortars and FA if available. It is not just a Sniper ability. As an Officer was cross trained with the USAF to call in CAS and USMC for Naval Fire Support.

It's not unique to just Snipers or Scouts. As a Mech Co Cdr at Ft. Benning, GA, '87-'89. I sent many of my 11Bs to the Sniper School there. Even though we had no Sniper Rifles or even scopes for our M16s. I was a good training. And we may get lucky and get some M21s or more likely scopes for our M16s. If deployed to combat.

In the ROK, '84-'85 our Snipers were issued M21s accurized M14s. With both Night and Day Scopes. Every scope has to be Zeroed for each individual Sniper/Soldier. IIRC we only had and were authorized 6 M21s ?

Looking back at the history it appears to have become more formalized with the introduction of smaller manpack radios like the SCR-300 Walkie Talkie and PRC-25 (basically a smaller SCR-300). Recon Teams were at the FEBA or behind enemy lines and stealthy needed radios while patrolling/observing so it made sense to tie into the artillery networks. Snipers were normally part of the Recon OOB. It appears that after Korea Sniper and Recon units were formally trained as FO's.

Wolfhag

Good intel Wolf !

Fascinating discussion. Thank you, gentlemen.