"China Flies New Stealth Fighter..." Topic

"The second copy of China¡¯s stealth fighter prototype has just flown at a research facility in the city of Chengdu. The first flight of the J-20 Mighty Dragon with the nose number 2002 doubles Beijing¡¯s stealth test fleet at a time when America¡¯s latest jet fighters are hobbled by cost overruns, labor disputes and lethal design flaws. But it¡¯s far from certain how much, and how fast, the new Chinese jet will alter the military balance.

The challenges for American stealth developers are clear. It has come to light that Lockheed¡¯s F-22 Raptor ¡ª the first of the current generation of stealth fighters ¡ª is steadily poisoning its pilots owing to a faulty oxygen system. Meanwhile, the F-35 has been delayed by several years and the overall cost to design and build thousands of the new jets has risen by hundreds of billions of dollars. To make matters worse, workers at Lockheed¡¯s F-35 factory have gone on strike, with no end in sight.

At first glance, China appears to be making huge progress where the U.S. falters. The twin-engine Mighty Dragon 2002, painted black like its predecessor, made its first appearance in April in photos snapped by Chinese bloggers (who may or may not be on Beijing¡¯s payroll). The second J-20 spent a month or so performing ground tests before launching on its inaugural test sortie sometime in the past few days. If the initial flight of the first Mighty Dragon (nose number 2001) in December 2010 is any indication, 2002¡äs debut mission amounted to little more than a lap around the Chengdu airfield to test the aircraft¡¯s basic functions and show off for the aforementioned bloggers.

With two airframes to work with, the Chengdu engineers can now double the roughly five-flights-a-month development program apparently aimed at producing a front-line stealth warplane. Before the first Mighty Dragon ever flew, General He Weirong of the Chinese People¡¯s Liberation Army Air Force said the J-20 would enter service between 2017 and 2019. Then-U.S. Secretary of Defense Robert Gates countered, saying it would be 2020 or later before China possessed a combat-ready stealth fighter. It¡¯s unclear who¡¯s right ¡ª or even what definition of front-line service either man was using.

Certainly, the Mighty Dragon¡¯s engineers have a lot of work ahead of them. For comparison, the development program for the U.S. military¡¯s latest F-35 Joint Strike Fighter includes more than 10,000 test flights spread over 15 years. If China duplicated the American testing profile, it could take decades for the J-20 to complete development.

But China traditionally does not take the same approach to warplane testing that America does. Instead, China follows the Russian model: some basic tests after which small numbers of new jets with rudimentary combat capabilities are handed over to a regular fighter squadron. After a few years of real-world use, engineers build a second batch with improved capabilities, and so on.

In that way China usually builds its aerial arsenal in small increments in parallel with testing. On the upside, new designs can enter service faster than they do in America. The downside is that the new fighters often fly with undetected flaws. The U.S. initially tried that ¡°concurrent¡± approach with the Lockheed Martin-built F-35, only to scale back early production after testers discovered design flaws costing billions of dollars to fix. The J-20 could encounter the same problem.

Moreover, it seems both J-20s are still flying with Russian-made AL-31 engines rather than motors specifically designed for the J-20¡äs huge size and apparent weight. China has had so many problems inventing its own jet engines that it has revived imports of Russian models. Finalizing advanced avionics, sensors and weapons could prove equally difficult for the Chengdu developers.

All the same, Mighty Dragon 2002 does appear to be a step towards an early combat capability. It features several apparent improvements over its sister Mighty Dragon 2001, including stockier landing gear and a redesigned nose that could house an ultra-modern electronically scanned radar. If Beijing chooses to build a squadron of J-20s for early front-line use, they could look a lot like jet number 2002.

That said, there are signs China is cooling its stealth-fighter ambitions. Until recently, analysts had predicted the J-20 would be joined by several other brand-new Chinese stealth fighter designs, including one code-named J-16. But this spring reporters got their first look at the J-16. Turns out it¡¯s a bolt-for-bolt copy of the Russian Su-30, a decidedly non-stealthy design.

That should prove comforting to American warplane developers who are in the throes of parallel crises involving the F-22 and F-35. Which is to say, China¡¯s stealth fighter development is faring no better and no worse than America¡¯s. For every big step forward there are little steps back."
From
link

A little step back?
It seems that it's a huge step back.
or not?

Amicalement
Armand

Do not be overly concerned. The Mighty Dragon may look impressive before the cameras, but it is mostly for show. China is still far behind in the key areas of materials science, avionics and electronic countermeasures, and engines. I think even the Russian T-50 is more advanced.

Do not give yourself undue alarm. There's nothing to see here. Move along. Must be a slow news day.

I imagine they will learn quickly though, since they are copying the SU-30, and other models, and the Sukhois have superb engines in them.

From a little over a year ago. Robert

China's J-20 stealth fighter: 'design is 25 years old'

Photographs released on the internet have provoked speculation that China is making rapid progress towards producing a state-of-the-art fighter jet, to compete with the United States, India and Russia.

By Praveen Swami

7:30AM GMT 06 Jan 2011

The photographs appear to show the aircraft, variously known as the J20 and JXX, taxiing along a runway.

Robert Gates, the US defence secretary, recently said China would be able to produce a combat jet by 2020, but if the photographs are genuine, it would suggest that it may be able to do so a decade or more sooner.

The photographs come amid growing fears over China's rapidly-expanding military capabilities. Naval experts have expressed concern over the Dong Feng-21D ballistic missile, which is designed to target aircraft carriers in mid-sea – thus denying the United States its traditional military dominance of the Pacific.

Fifth generation fighter jets are so designated because of their ability to evade radar even when carrying armaments, and computer systems which can network with other elements in a battle theatre. The US-manufactured F-22 is the only combat-ready fifth generation fighter.

Experts, however, are warning against drawing conclusions on the basis of the photographs.

Douglas Barrie, an aerospace expert at the International Institute of Strategic Studies, noted that the J20's airframe resembled that of an abandoned Russian prototype, the MiG 1.42.

"I'm not sure that its even much of an impressive airframe," said Richard Aboulafia, another analyst. "It looks like something that might have been designed in 1985."

For the most part, China's combat aircraft programme has lagged behind its competitors in the west and Russia.

China's fourth-generation combat jet, the J-10, appeared in 2006 – but experts say it compares with western aircraft that went into production two decades ago. Beijing has also struggled to develop the Shenyang J-15 carrier-borne jet, reverse-engineered from the Russian-made Sukhoi 33.

China's fifth-generation fighter programme, experts say, faces several critical challenges as it moves forward from prototype stage to actual production.

For example, Chinese avionics – the software-controlled electronic systems which gave modern combat jets their cutting-edge mission capabilities – are believed to be a generation behind their US, European, Israeli and Russian counterparts.

It is also unclear what kind of engine the new Chinese jet will use. Some commentators have suggested that a new prototype engine, the WS 15, will power the J20. The engine, however, is some years away from going into production – and potential foreign suppliers will be cautious about supplying equipment, because of fears over cloning.

Last summer, Russia threatened to cut off supplies of jet engines for China's JF-17, saying it had been cloned from its Sukhoi 27/30 and MiG 29 aircraft – and was being sold for $10 USD million less than the original.

Illya Kramnik, a Russian expert, said that "despite the strides made by China's aircraft designers in the last 20 years, China has only slightly narrowed the technological gap dividing it from the global leaders."

link

Chengdu J-20 Chinese Stealth fighter maiden flight [Video and Pictures]
by Cavin Dsouza on January 12, 2011 |
China's first stealth fighter J-20, has reportedly made its first test flight, according to Chinese Reports. It was reported that China's Stealth Fighter, J-20 made a 15-minute flight from 12:50 to 13:05 hrs in southwest China's Chengdu city.

China has carried out the test flight of its advanced laser-evading stealth fighter J-20, according to media reports, perfectly timing the event to coincide with the visit of U.S Defense Secretary Robert Gates to the country.

The J-20 stealth fighter is proof to China's rapid advancement in military aviation technology, however the timing of the test flight appears to have an hidden message towards U.S.

Chinese media have projected the J-20 as a massive competitor to the United States' F-22 Raptor. Japanese newspaper Ashai Shimbun said last week the fighter will be equipped with large missiles and could reach island of Guam, a US territory in the western pacific with the aerial refueling.

The J-20 is a twin-engine multi-role heavy fighter with stealth capability and maneuverability as compared to American F-22 RAPTOR. J-20 also incoporates an advanced FBW(fly by wire) system fully integrated with the fire-control and the engine systems. Its fire-control radar is expected to be AESA (Type 1475/KLJ5).

Chinese media said, photographs of the twin-engine plane making its first flight were splashed over Chinese websites. The videos of the fighter doing runway tests had been leaked out last week and numerous photographs of this stealth aircraft are already available on the internet.The J-20 prototype was first photographed when it was preparing for high-speed taxing trial at the CAC airfield on December 22, 2010.The Wall Street Journal also said nobody from the Chinese military establishment could confirm the report of the J-20′s first flight.

This successful launch of the J-20 will lift China's air warfare capability and strengthen its defence aviation capabilities as it will bridge a huge gap with the U.S technology. Presently the F-22 Raptor is the only fully operational stealth fighter in the world."
link

Chengdu J-20 the Chinese stealth fighter maiden flight
youtu.be/Nkb_2a66baI

Depending on what axe you have to grid the J-20 (and DF-31 and a host of other Chinese systems) are either worthless crap of hundred foot tall giants. The truth is somewhere in between, just like it is when looking at Western systems. In the long term though (which is how the Chinese see things) I think one would dismiss these steps at one's peril.

"F-22 Raptor is the only fully operational stealth fighter in the world."

It is reported that SecDef has imposed some pretty stringent limits that would strain the "fully" bit of this statement :)

Yep. I posted about that yesterday
TMP link

Robert

China's J-20 stealth fighter: 'design is 25 years old'

Yeah, so is ours. So what?

Look it doesn't really matter if the PRC has 1000 J-20s hidden away, and they are the best fighter in the world. The chances of us having to face them in a war that does not go nuclear, before they become obsolete junk, are vanishingly slim.
-Kle.

"For example, Chinese avionics – the software-controlled electronic systems which gave modern combat jets their cutting-edge mission capabilities – are believed to be a generation behind their US, European, Israeli and Russian counterparts.

It is also unclear what kind of engine the new Chinese jet will use. Some commentators have suggested that a new prototype engine, the WS 15, will power the J20. The engine, however, is some years away from going into production – and potential foreign suppliers will be cautious about supplying equipment, because of fears over cloning."

I wonder how they are doing with the engines and avionics.Seems like they are still having problems with them like they were having over a year ago. Right now it just looks like a J-20 prototype can fly. Robert

One wonders why the electronics would be so behind the times when China makes most of the world's computers and smartphones?

Actually they do more assembly than actual production.

I get "Combat Aircraft" magazine, and it does nice reviews of the state of Chinese aircraft every couple of years. In general their home-grown and home-built (Russian knockoffs) engines have been their biggest problem for all of their planes. Stealth is likely well behind too, but I think they got some avionics help from Israel in the past, before the west pulled back again from supporting their aerospace industry.

But the Chinese sure seem willing to push forward, probably just a matter of how many decades down the road they catch up.

Not very good if we all know about it .

Well, they are producing the Airbus in China, so no doubt that will help them with their technology development on engines, etc.