"Who are the heels and faces in wargaming?" Topic

In professional wrestling, the wrestlers are usually, but not always, divided into "heels" and "faces".
Think pre-NWO Hulk Hogan, and NWO Hulk Hogan.

A heel is the Bad Guy. He sneers a lot, and is a loud mouth jerk on the mic. He also cheats. (In wargaming terms, "cheats" could mean "the rules are designed to favor him.")
For me, these would be the WW2 Germans. Or Napoleonic French. We have all seen the special rules designed to assure that these armies will usually win, numbers and skill being equal. The notorious "+2 for being French, +3 if your C-in-C is Napoleon" rules.
Heck, Warrior has added enough Stupid Roman rules to make sure that only a dead idiot can lose with Romans.

A face (short for "babyface") is the heroic underdog. He plays by the rules. He often gets shafted by the Referee. Orm the Ref is distracted by the Heel's manager while the heel hits the face with a steel chair.
He gets no Special Rules to help him win.

In Napoelonics, the British get the leftover +1 for being Highlanders, Rifles, etc. so they cannot be faces. Just minor heels.
So, in Napoleonics, I would give the Austrians "face" status. Prussians are creepily Teutonic, and Russians are just plain despotic.
In Flames of War, I would have given the British and Americans "face" status, because the Germans can usually push them around due to the Ref favoring them with special rules. However, the recent BAR kerfluffel gave the Brits some heel cred, and I fear the Tank Destroyer Company will do the same for the Yanks.

For me, "faces" would be
1) Plucky American frigates in the War of 1812. Sure, we are bigger and better armed, but that means we take our vitamins and say our prayers. Hey, that's the freakin' Royal Nvy we are up against!
2) AWI Americans. We get special face cred because we keep our amateur status intact. sometimes we win because we try harder!
3) Wily Johnnie Pathan on the NW Frontier. "Oh, what, are they invading us AGAIN?"
4) Most colonial natives, even the blood-thirsty ones.

Let me add that you do not have to like a "face". In tody's wrestling, the faces are often more obnoxious than a heel.
Randy Orton is now technically a face, but to me he will always be the thug who is a deserter from the US Army.

Heels and faces can "turn", by the way. It happems all the time.

No, if you want 'faces' in Napoleonics, try the Spanish,
either Junta or quasi-French.

Special rules for the French ? Been playing Empire, have
we ?

I give *some* French a + (Old Guard) and *some* Coalition
units a + (Highlanders, Br. Guard, Russian Guard, Prussian
Guard), and *some* Coalition defenders (Russian Line in
Russia). As a contrarian, I'll give Austro-Hungarian
Infantry a + if Charles/John are NOT in overall command.

The only French commanders who get + from me (tactically)
are Lannes (when *leading* an attack) and Davout (anytime)

I've probably opened the floodgates with those comments,
but what the heck – my house, my rules !

In the AWI
Heels would be Tarleton and Arnold
Baby face would be Lafayette
Icon would be Morgan
jobbers would be the Tories and Indians because they get the short end of the matches, no big pay-per-view for them.

Napoleonic Swedes would be faces.
Russians in any era would be heels.

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Pro-Wrestling still exists? I thought it went the way of roller derby, years ago. I thought Andy Kaufman drove a stake through its heart.

Seven Years War Prussians are definite heels. Austrians, definite faces. Historically decent performers, but in a game the enemy is perpetually deploying on the flank just to start with.

You watch professional wrestling?!

In professional wrestling,…

Oops … back to the home page …

Professional wrestling is soap operas for men…..but every once in awhile I'll watch it.

Ditto on what Snowman said this is real.
Also you left out Confederates for faces.

I'm actually shocked that there's someone other than me who watches WWE…

Professional wrestling is soap operas for men…but every once in awhile I'll watch it.

Except I tease a couple girls I know about watching their 'soap opera' every Friday night.

Well I never thought I see Napoleonics and wrestling in the same post…but I do kind of get what the man is saying…which is a worry!

I think Austrians might be 'faces' if they didn't go round in such (Black Powder) large units!

Faces: Canadians.
Heels: Was Russians. Is Chinese.

I liked Hacksaw Jim Duggan. Prop comics are the best!

Pro-Wrestling still exists? I thought it went the way of roller derby, years ago. I thought Andy Kaufman drove a stake through its heart.

Wasn't even its biggest era.

Heels – those who take the hobby and themselves much too seriously.

Faces – those who DON"T take the hobby and themselves too seriously.

When it comes to players, I'll agree with DJCoaltrain

Heels – Rules lawyers who insist on using every sub-annex and adenda and whose general in any battel is always the icon of the day; Be it is always Fred or Alex the Greats, Napoleon, Rommel or Boudicea.

Faces – Those who are having a darn good time and already have the funny stories saved up for pub chat after the game.

Historical?
Heels – Yeah, the guys who get all the special rules
Faces – The guys who get nothing and may even get deductions.

I think there may be a major floor in your theory.
Heels= the snarling Bad guys nearly always loose to the Face= guys with the flowing long blond hair. This has been the case since TV wrestling started. Unless this current I gen has seen a sudden 180o change as my watching of wrestling has fallen away a bit.

Well, the heel has to win as well, and should in fact be on top, for the face's victory to be meaningful.

Heels – Boers anytime, Germans in anything from 1866-1946. French in anything from 1066-1815. English anytime vs Scots/Welsh or Irish. British against small colonial tribes except Zulus. Russians in any war against Swedes, Poles and other small states. The Japanese anytime. Americans in Vietnam or Mexico or Cuba and the 1812. Prussians.

Faces.- Danes in any 18th-19th century conflict. Portuguese, Brits, Austrians, Brunswickers, Swedes, Dutch are all Napoleonic faces. Bavarians and Neapolitans too though they fight for the heel. Turks. Canadians in the 1812. All allies in WW1 and 2. Scots/Welsh and Irish in any war of Independence. Latin Americans vs Spainiards. Anglo Saxons vs Danes or Normans. Brits vs Boers.

On a rules note. I never give Highland regiment bonuses purely for being highland. I give rifles a bonus for being sharpshooters. I give veterans a bonus for being veteran. My reason being that the Irish and English were both as capable. Infact the three or four incidents of bayonet fights I can recall involve the 45th, 20th, 88th and 87th. All of which are made up of English or Irish.

They don't make 'em like this guy anymore.

link

This inspires me to paint one of my Austrian commanders to look like "Nature Boy" Ric Flair. Give them a bit of street cred.

Paul

I remember the days of Andre the Giant and Sailor White in the 70s where there'd be countless arguments amongst kids in elementary as to whether or not it was real or not.

This hasn't been the case in a long while, though. Even back in the nineties, the (then) WWF had an ad campaign that basically amounted to them saying, yes, we know it's scripted.

Faces: 1914 Belgians, Viet Minh, 1948 Israelis (Except the Stern gang)

Mexican Republicans are clearly faces and the Mexican Empire of Maximilian are obvious heels.

As per Edwulf's comment, the Germans in 1866 are all heels, but that seems fitting.

In the hobby as a whole, GW is the obvious heel and, the face is equally obviously, but unexpectedly, Bill Armintrout and TMP.

Faces: WWII Italians, French and Russians from June 41 – March 45

"Mexican Empire of Maximilian are obvious heels." Not really successful enough to be heels?

Contrary to Edwulf's statement, Russians are most definitely faces in the GNW, and the Swedes heels.