"Allied Tank Aces???" Topic

I found lists of Soviet and German tank/panzer aces but no lists of America or British….anyone know of such lists?

Thanks,
Brian

I think you'd be hard pressed to find any such list. The Western Allies seem to have shied away from the sort of obsessive scorekeeping and attendant propagandizing hero worship that the totalitarian regimes employed. Consider how few Allied air aces were publicly feted, let alone submarine aces, sub killers, etc.

To give an example, Sgt. Wilfred Harris, 4th/7th Royal Dragoon Guards, destroyed five Panthers with five shots in the course of a single day. A remarkable feat, and he was awarded the DCM while his gunner was Mentioned in Dispatches. What was his record for the entire war? None seems to have been kept. Likewise Sgt. George Dring of the Notts Yeomanry (Sherwood Rangers) who also destroyed five German tanks in a single day in Normandy. That exceptional day's work was noted, but his total kills (starting in North Africa) remain a mystery.

The late Serjeant Joe Ekins, 1st Northants Yeomanry, may have fired the shot, as a Trooper and Firefly gunner, that dispatched Wittman.

The RAF and the Sherbrooke Fusiliers also claimed to have been responsible.

The mark of the man is that in all the controversy, he simply said:

'It doesn't matter who killed him, only that he was stopped.'

"S/SGT. LAFAYETTE POOL, U.S. ARMY TANKER LEGEND
32nd Armored Regiment, 3rd Armored Division"He was simply the U.S. Army's best tank-crew and tank-platoon commander of WWII. That's a very lofty claim, but agreed upon by leading military historians and armor experts, and one where no serious challenger for Pool's title has ever been brought forward."

Texas born and raised, Lafayette G. "Lafe" Pool (1919-1990), even today, is to U.S. tankers what Richard Bong and David McCampbell are to the USAF and US Navy – their "Top Gun," when considering all wars. He served with the 3rd Platoon, "I" Company, 32nd Armored Regiment, 3rd Armored Division from 1941 to 1944. During a brief 83 days in combat in France, Belgium and Germany, Pool and his tank crew were credited with destroying 258 enemy vehicles, including tanks, self-propelled guns, and armored cars. He and his crew killed over 1,000 enemy soldiers and took over 250 prisoners.

His was the point tank in 21 full-scale engagements, and he survived many harrowing close calls with death. Fighting from three different Sherman tanks, Pool and his crew knocked out no less than 12 German tanks, most of which were superior to the Shermans in terms of armor and firepower.

Pool was twice recommended for the Congressional Medal of Honor, but an "infantry" mentality Army Recommendation Board decided that, since tanks were crew-served weapons, he did not deserve the Medal. But Pool, of course, was awarded other major Army medals, including the Distinguished Service Cross, the Legion of Merit, the Silver Star, and the Purple Heart. He also received the Belgian Fourragère and the French Legion of Honor.

In his last battle, on September 19, 1944, near Stolberg, Germany, Pool was blown from the turret of his tank from a double-hit by German shells. Severely wounded, but fully conscious, he was rushed to a medical unit, but would eventually lose a leg. He was angry about having to leave the war "way too soon, " he later said. He told a Stars & Stripes reporter, "I was just getting started. This isn't fair." Given a prosthesis, he returned to active duty in 1948 and served until 1960, retiring as a Chief Warrant Officer 2.

Lafayette Pool died at his home in Killeen, Texas, on June 1, 1990, at the age of 71 and is buried at the military cemetery on Fort Sam Houston, Texas. He left a wife, three sons, and three daughters. Pool's oldest son, 1st Lt. Jerry L. Pool, Army Special Forces Green Beret, was reported missing in Cambodia in March, 1970, and was declared dead in 1978."

More here,
Including an article on other 3AD Tank Aces
link

Robert

Yup, but how many others can you name?

Looks like we have a list going right here.
"The 3rd Armored Division earned its nickname "Spearhead" the hard way, battling across France and Belgium. Among the many tankers to have fought with the 3rd, there are four that are called tank "aces": Lafayette G. Pool. Henry J. Earl, Shelton C. Picard. and Cliff L. Elliott."

For the Allies "Tank Aces" weren't as a big thing as it was to the Soviets and Germans. I don't think there were any "lists" kept. Robert

"Tank Aces, From Blitzkrieg to the Gulf War"

"British author George Forty, a noted international expert on tank warfare, discusses 26 individual soldiers from 8 countries in his book "Tank Aces," published in 1997. The time period of the study covers World War II to the Gulf War ("Desert Storm" – 1991). By eliminating those aces who were officers in command positions of company-level and greater (involved more in general strategy), and those aces who were extraordinary in one or several battle situations only, three men of the original 26 remain, and stand apart in meeting a criteria of continual, front-line, combat brilliance:

Lt. Dimitri Lavrinenko – U.S.S.R., WWII
SSgt. Lafayette Pool – U.S.A./3AD, WWII
SS-Capt. Michael Wittmann – Germany WWII

Listed above in alphabetical order, each of these men repeatedly excelled in situations where they were directly involved in destroying enemy armor and vehicles and killing enemy soldiers. At the same time, each was an inspiring and aggressive leader who repeatedly risked his own life to achieve these missions. Of the three, only Pool survived the war, but was critically wounded in September, 1944, and would eventually lose a leg. As can be extrapolated from George Forty's book, these three soldiers are arguably history's greatest hands-on battlefield tank commanders."

3ad.com

Real heros don't boast and have no need for tally sheets of their feats.

x42

I found lists of Soviet and German tank/panzer aces but no lists of America or British…

Ahem… wouldn't those Soviet tank aces be also Allied tank aces?

Joe Ekins was so revered as a gunner that soon after he was remustered as a driver,,

You are correct Griefbringer, I should have said, "other" Allied…..

It was easier for the Germans to rack up impressive scores--they had way more targets to shoot at. :)

Joe Ekins was so revered as a gunner that soon after he was remustered as a driver

In the British armoured service no crewman is considered fully trained until he has completed all crew roles.

I considered commenting on your sarcastic tone in referring to a deceased WW2 veteran, but actually its beneath contempt….

John Gorman :

In 1944 the 2nd and 3rd Irish Guards took part in the Normandy Campaign. The Irish Guards, as part of the Guards Armoured Division, took part in Operation Goodwood (18–20 July). The Division's objective was Cagny, Vimont and the surrounding area. During 18 July 1944, near Cagny, Lieutenant (later Sir) John Gorman of the 2nd Irish Guards was in his Sherman tank when he was confronted by a far superior German Tiger II or 'King Tiger'. Gorman's tank fired one shot at the Tiger II, but the shot bounced off its thick armour. The Sherman's gun jammed before a second shot could be fired, and Gorman then gave the order to ram the Tiger II just as it was beginning to turn its massive 88mm gun on his tank. The Sherman smashed into the Tiger II, the collision disabling both tanks. The crews of both tanks then bailed out. Lieutenant Gorman, once he had seen his crew to safety, returned to the scene in a commandeered Sherman Firefly and destroyed the King Tiger. He was awarded the Military Cross for his actions, while the driver from his own crew, Lance-Corporal James Baron, won the Military Medal.

it wasn't sarcastic at all.rather just a noting of a seeming paradox.. I have the greatest respect for him and the Northamptonshire Yeomanry,the fact he never fired a gun again and spent the rest of the war as a driver is just a comment on how different armies do different things…Wittman's gunner, who shot at a lot more tanks than joe became a commander of his own vehicle.. I think your umbrage meter may be overheating a bit….

and I tend to the idea of Sherbrooke fusliers getting Wittman, though whoever got him doesn't detract from Ekin's excellent shooting and destroying of three tigers in quick succession , at a difficult range..

I'd disagree about the air aces reference early on in the thread. At least in the US the names of Bong, McGuire, Boyington, Gabraski, O'Hara, etc became household names. When some of them returned home they were wined and dined and feted to promote bond sales, etc. The fact that we didn't go way over the top like the Germans was that we were winning and didn't need to prop up morale in a country being systematically taken apart.

On land guys like Audie Murphy got plenty of hype. Not a tank ace admittedly.

Joe Ekins was so revered as a gunner that soon after he was remustered as a driver
In the British armoured service no crewman is considered fully trained until he has completed all crew roles.

I considered commenting on your sarcastic tone in referring to a deceased WW2 veteran, but actually its beneath contempt….

I dont believe that was sarcasm in the least. IIRC the story goes that Joe Ekins, shortly after his excellent shooting if not that evening, was transferred as driver in another vehicle.

I think this is a stong illustration of how 'Aces' were played down in British Forces. Its the team that does the job.