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"Whither Sorcery" Topic


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Mooseworks811 May 2012 8:26 a.m. PST

In my RPG experience a sorcerer is one whose practice of magic comes from having a magical bloodline. Whereas a wizard/witch must learn their craft. Why make such a distinction? Does a sorcerer hold more value than a wizard? Thoughts?

RavenscraftCybernetics11 May 2012 8:48 a.m. PST

A wizard exerts his control over the environment or things.
A sorceror exerts control over people and animals/monsters.

Chef Lackey Rich Fezian11 May 2012 8:58 a.m. PST

As the first response proves, the words mean different things to different people and have no set definition. The meme in the original post is only valid within D&D and its spinoffs, and originated mostly so that there was another flavor of arcane caster to choose from. Sorcerers feel and play more like superheroes than scholars – small selection of powers, repeatable many times per day.

Even D&D settings don't treat sorcerers as being superior to wizards in most cases – quite the opposite, as they're mostly looked down on by "real" wizards as bumbling freaks who don't really understand the magic they're (ab)using. Several canonical cultures treat them as outlaw casters, in part because they're harder to regulate than wizards since their powers come from internal sources rather than training.

That said, if you need someone who can cast the same spell over and over and over again, you want a sorcerer. If you want someone who can potentially pull any trick out of their spellbook with a little prep time, you want a wizard. They share the same general spell list, but do different things.

lugal hdan11 May 2012 10:02 a.m. PST

I think it's valid to make a distinction, whatever you call them, between wielders of supernatural power based on the source of that power. For lack of better terms, I'll use the D&D names:


Power Source: Powerful Beings

Some beings in a fantasy universe can shape reality through their thoughts and deeds.

CLERICS serve these beings and are allowed to wield their power to an extent. The cleric's own alignment to his or her God allows that God's power to "rub off" in a way. It's no secret that this model of divine "casting" is rooted on the Biblical stories of the Saints and Apostles.

SUMMONERS seek to bind these beings to do their bidding. This includes (IMO) both demonic and mundane summoning. The "power" being wielded is really more of an arcane teleportation/dimension gating and binding type, though since the goal is to get a powerful being to do magic for you, I think it belongs in the "Powerful Beings" section.


Power Source: Arcane Knowledge

In a fantasy universe, there are energies beyond physics that can be controlled by the right application of thought and deeds.

WIZARDS study the "science" of these energies and learn to apply them. A smart enough wizard can unlock the power of the Gods, though generally the limitations of mortality prevent them from ultimate knowledge. I would submit that though in theory anyone can be a wizard, it takes a certain type of intellect to be any good at it. Take Mathematics for example. Anyone can learn the basics, but only some have the right *kind* of smarts to be good at it.

SORCERERS have an innate connection to these energies and learn to use them much as a normal being learns to walk, talk, swim, etc. I view them as having more than the "arcane bent" that makes a good wizard; there is something actually different about them. They can sense magical flow around them. The down side is that they've spent their whole lives engulfed in this flow, and understand arcane energy in a very different way from a wizard, like a fighter pilot understands his plane in a different way than the aeronautical engineer that designed it.


Power Source: Physics, Mathematics

Since fantasy universes have magic, the study of "mundane" science is often neglected. But some do study it, such as alchemists and herbalists, and they can produce some fairly impressive results using only the "calculus of the natural world".

Personal logo Parzival Supporting Member of TMP11 May 2012 11:30 a.m. PST

Man, has D&D changed. In my day "Sorcerer" was simply a level 9 magicuser (if one went by the "Level Titles" in the AD&D Player's Handbook), or simply a generic term for a powerful (and probably evil) wizard. Magic was also very much stated to not be from within at all, as the energies implied in a single spell would drain the caster of all life (at the very least) or leave him a pile of smoldering ash; rather the magical energy was assumed to be called upon by the caster from some external magical energy field (I imagine something similar to the Earth's magnetic field in terms of scope and pervasiveness), or possibly other planes. (It was all in the DMG, and I can't remember exactly what Gygax opined.) In any case, there was never a case of magical ability being inherent to the caster (aside from elves and some magical creatures); you were either intelligent enough to study and pursue the discipline of magic (or in the case of clerics and druids, wise enough and pious (or devious) enough to gain the favor of the gods), or you were not.

I did favor the concept of "schools" of magical study, based more or less on the various elemental planes plus a few extra: Fire, Earth, Water, Air, Magic, Light, Dark, Energy, Time, Life, and Death, but never did anything with that. I suspect that other RPGs have taken that approach; it wasn't an original concept to me when I fiddled with it.

As to the OP's question, I would probably use the above, and classify "Sorcery" as dealing with the realm of "pure" magic— "sorcerous energies," if you will, that are used to do produce a variety of effects, yet do not tap into the more obvious elemental schools. (Analogous, perhaps, to pure physics or cosmology, as opposed to applied sciences like engineering, biology, chemistry, etc.. Okay, perhaps a stretch, but it gets the idea across.) So a sorcerer might create an energy being to do its bidding, but would not be summoning or enchanting actual beings (which would fall in perhaps the Life school, or the specific elemental school of an elemental being such as an efreet or djinn, or, if undead, the Death school (or necromancy)). Similarly, a sorcerer might cast energy bolts or what have you, but not fireballs (Fire), ice walls (Water), lightning bolts (Energy), meteor storms (Earth)— you get the idea.

If you wanted to get across the possibility of nefarious influences, one can imagine an "opposition/conjunction" chart similar to the old Elemental Planes chart in the original DMG. For example, Life would be directly opposite and opposed to Death, whereas Sorcery (Magic?) might be located between the two, with the sorcerer "leaning" one way or the other in the form his magic takes. Not sure what the "opposite" of "sorcery" would be… never really got that far. (Hmmm… maybe "Alchemy?" As it's rooted in actual things, where sorcerery implies things that are not?)

In any case, if you like the concept, feel free to use it.

billthecat11 May 2012 11:44 a.m. PST

Semantics and connotation.
I always try to envision different 'types' of magic or 'casters' as being distinguished by their source (essence of various types, associated with particular realms, gods, ideas, etc… depending on the metaphysics of the setting) and possibly their techniques (power words, runes, alchemy, circles, sheer will, etc…) Call it/them whatever you like… although the connotations of european civilization and language still dominate the awareness of most English speakers.
Sorcerers infer a slightly more sinister practicioner in my mind, perhaps skirting the edge of what is 'safe' morally and/or physically.

Lion in the Stars11 May 2012 2:55 p.m. PST

I also like the engineer v artist comparison.

A magician is like an engineer, he builds his effects through knowing how each piece works.

A sorcerer is like an artist, taking disparate pieces and parts to make a whole effect.

And the most powerful are those that understand both sides.

Mike at Work 211 May 2012 9:44 p.m. PST

Bard games The Arcanum listed various types of magic users… if I remember correctly, the Wizards used words of power type magic (not 100% sure of that) while Sorcerers treated magic like a science and studied it as such.

to me, even though that game's machanics for all magic users was identical, the types were based on flavor and spell list/effects.

otherwise.. to me… its a 9th level magic user

Mardaddy11 May 2012 11:52 p.m. PST

I had always considered wizard and sorcerer more-or-less interchangeable; with "sorcerer" being a term used by less educated or cosmopolitan cultures (and always in the negative from same cultures.)

For my games, I like the titles based on the schools from the old AD&D 2ndEd: Summoner, Diviner, Enchantress, etc.

JimSelzer12 May 2012 7:07 p.m. PST

I would consider the sorceror to be the male version of a witch somewhat limited in scope but powerful in what he knows

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