"Defiance Games - Marines all shipped! Plus a roadmap" Topic

The last Marine pre-orders shipped off and our mad rush of cardboard, tape, and postage is behind us…for now.

New Marine orders will ship same day/next day depending on how busy it is. We've started to get some pics back from those who have them in hand – feel free to show yours off on our forums!

There is no rest for the wicked however – so it is onto the next sets. The Alien Bugs are first – later this month – with the molds wrapping up and production about to begin. The Germans will be hot on their heels. And then it's onto the following:

Thanks again everyone!

Tony

Tony Reidy
Defiance Games
defiancegames.com

Find us on Facebook: facebook.com/DefianceGames

Definitely excited about the June releases.

Great, looking forward to getting my order! And I agree with Pictors, the Bugs and initial Germans look interesting, but the concept art for your June releases look very cool!!

Oh my Lord, its a MaK SAFS in 28mm Scale!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

For the love of my wallet, tell me it does NOT come with jump jets and a Y-Rack grenade launcher on the back???????

June 2012?

Here come the guys claiming that they will only be putting empty boxes on the shelves. Sigh.

Very "Aliens" or "Space: Above and Beyond" in look. Not a bad thing really. The figures do look good.

Very interested in the bugs and the power armour, not so much the germans due to scale issues……my marines are 25mm BF Evo SAS (light troopers), GZG NSL panzergrenadiers (heavy troopers) and GZG Cyclops walkers (heavy assault troopers).

I've no idea what no. 4 is, i'm guessing female marines?

The battlesuits might make nice light mechs for 15mm.

I know I'll snag some for combat walkers in 15mm.

-Eli

#3 looks verrrrry interesting.

Hmmmmmm, some possibilities are opening for the NSF.

Can't wait for the Hardsuits and Panzergrenadiers. I'd jump on those bugs, but I promised myself(And the pressed space in my house) no more bugs until I finish the 200 Arachnid warriors(And about six dozen in other subspecies.) I never bothered painting unless they were some special type…not to mention the 100 or so Tyranids I have.

The mecha suit is cool. Did you get permission from the artist (flyingdebris on deviantart) to use the drawing?

hi Jeremy – Alex Iglesias – the artist – has done quite a bit for us including this and the German concepts. He also does the orthos for the sculptors to work from.

Thanks guys!

Tony

Great! He does nice work.

I have no idea what this mak safs is, but if it is so quickly identified as looking like one, you might want to look into it to cover your butt.

Last question for now. What do the dates represent? Release date seems unlikely as they would already have to be in production to make those dates. Are they the dates the previews will officially be released? The date preorders will be taken? If they will actually be available at those times, colour me impressed.

Hi Jeremy – those are our estimates for release dates.

Marines and Bugs can be chalked up to learning curve in doing hard plastics domestically. Now that we've got that sorted – as long as people like what we're making, we'll be making a LOT of it.

Lots going on here. ;-)

Then colour me impressed! Glad to hear you got a handle on it. I look forward to seeing how they turn out.

Where did all the crabby people go to?

Well, my Defiance Games Marines arrived today, I'm a happy guy.

Not sure when I'll find the time to actually put them together, though. It was an impulse purchase; don't even have a game in mind for them yet.

Here come the guys claiming that they will only be putting empty boxes on the shelves. Sigh.

I think it was "place empty boxes on shelves, take hurried photo and run away with boxes before clueless store manager sees photographer."

CAPTAIN BEEFHEART 07 May 2012 8:52 p.m. PST:

Where did all the crabby people go to?

Most simply stopped being crabby when DG finally resolved their issues with Marines. They are likely to get crabby again if the very agressive road map – perhaps it should be called a "road rage map" (-;) – posted by DG above fails spectacularly and that fact gets vigorously handwaved off. Hopefully neither won't come to pass.

If they do what they say they will, why be crabby?

If the hardsuits look like that I might buy some.

Pat

I think the bugs will be ideal for big bugs in 15mm as well. They have a look about them that they'll scale well next to 15mm infantry.

Oh, they are still around. See above re artwork and initial suggestion that Defiance were using someone else's art. Well intentioned I am sure, but a PM would have been more polite.

Got my Marines yesterday! Thanks Tony, very nice!

Oh give me a break. A PM could be easily ignored if there was really a problem, and no one would be the wiser. I didn't even know we could do PMs here.

I may be blunt, but I am fair. Tony was very amiable in his response and everything was sorted quickly and politely.

Defiance, love em or hate em, are really the company to watch this year. Their success or failure will impact the hobby. I have been brutally honest with Tony at times and we don't always agree. But that's okay. I do it because it matters, and honesty is the only commentary that actual helps a company. Fawning fanboys are nice to have to boost the ego and drive sales, but they never help you improve your product. I want Tony to succeed at this and turn around his image, for himself, his investors, and the hobby.

If that is being crabby, then so be it.

Best of luck Tony. I look forward to seeing how the next releases turn out.

A release each month? That's very optimistic.

Basic members can't send PMs, so that wasn't an option.

"domestic production". These are made in the US?

If it says so on their site, I think you can assume it's a yes. In fact it's been discussed at lenght here on TMP as well and all indications are in that direction.

While I've been standing down from collecting 28mm sci-fi in general in favor of 15mm, I must confess that these hardsuts are so damn nice looking that I can see myself springing for them on principle, especially since being hard plastic multi-part affairs, I can customize them to death…

Hmmm… one platoon for desert, one for urban, one for temperate, one for artic/winter, one for zero-g/airless rock…

Leland R. Erickson

Actually, everybody can PM – they go to their own email account and contact the company via its website. It does not have to be via TMP to count.

yup, on the box it says Made in Massachusetts, Made in the USA. a big reason why i bought some and will continue to support Defiance.

We threw the "Made in Massachusetts" bit on the boxes when we realized every last bit was pretty much done here.

Howard is in New York – so the rules come from New York. Diego is in Madrid – so artwork gets chalked up to Spain. But Tim Barry (the sculptor) is here along with our mold engineers, tooling shop, and injection press. Oh – and the box printing is done in Chelmsford, MA too!

So pretty much all home grown!

Thanks,
Tony

Tony Reidy
Defiance Games
defiancegames.com

Awesome. Im less concerned with "made in the US" specifically as much as "made in places where people get a living wage".

GOod on you lot.

Like another poster up there, I've moved to 15mm …but the germans will get me to at least build two opposing platoons of these guys.

We'll also be releasing Howard Whitehouse's (Mexican Jack Squint on TMP) ALIEN WAR rules in the near future. This allows for "realistic" future combat starting with squad-on-squad up to platoon size or more. The rules will be a free PDF download ready to check out as soon as they're pretty-fied.

'Defiance, love em or hate em, are really the company to watch this year. Their success or failure will impact the hobby.'
Really? I can't see how, it's not like WGF made any impact on the hobby – except for those who were only concerned with price and would accept any old tat as figures.
Without wishing to be rude, I can't see they are going to have a major impact on the hobby – in a positive or negative way.

'Defiance, love em or hate em, are really the company to watch this year. Their success or failure will impact the hobby.'

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though those of us who are historical gamers will likely be watching Victrix, Perry and WL.

Those of us who are all multi-genre miniature wargamers will be watching all the miniature manufactures releases that we can!

I'm hoping Defiance can keep on schedule or close too it. My son has been enthralled with the first set and I'm looking forward to the Germans. I said I would never buy the bugs as I already have Tyranids and SST Arachnids by the 100s. There is something oddly appealing about the Defiance Bug picture. Similar to others yet very different, almost more alien but I can't seem to figure out why I think that. I may buy a box to check them out. Which is how the last two bug armies started…

I have to say, I was not interested in this game at first after what I consider a "lazy uninspiring name"

I nearly wet my self from the coolness.

I know I know

don't judge a book by its cover. :p

Alright, I promised honesty so here's my explaination…

It is not about the miniatures. I personally think they are uninspired and a bit crap. And I have explained why before. Now if the planned minis live up to the concept art, this could change. But the marines did not, so we have to wait and see.

Why I think Defiance is the company to watch this year is about everything but miniatures. Tony is trying to recover from a previous failure, to put it bluntly. And at first it looked like he had learned nothing, repeating all the same mistakes. Taking pre-orders, missing release dates again and again, and not being careful with his words. It has basically been a huge mess.

But…the marines are out now and in the hands of those who paid for them. I think if he learns from his mistakes he can turn it around. My advice to Tony would be to set realistic goals, listen to criticism, tone down the online personality, tone down the relentless hype, don't rely on preorders from here on, and be honest. We don't need a play by play, in your face sales pitch. Something like "we make cheap, tabletop quality plastic miniatures. When they are ready to ship we will make an announcement. We hope you like them." would have been received much better than the hype the marines got.

Why it is important to the hobby is because of the relationship between manufacturer and consumer. Gaming is a much more intimate market than most, where we make models out of passion, know each other by name, and buy with our guts. If Defiance continues down the same old path, it can really sour the relationship between gamers and model producers. Gamers might be turned off from preordering anything, leaving honest manufacturers in a tough spot. There is already a growing sentiment that "it ain't real until it is in my hands". Though other companies have quietly produced renders and released real products on time without all they hype, Defiance and it's failures have surely gotten the lion's share of attention in the last year.

Look at Blackwater Gulch. Here is a miniature project that likely wouldn't have been possible without preorders. So they set up a kickstarter program, have been very successful in attracting backers, and are releasing real greens to show for their efforts nearly every week. I would hate to see that opportunity ruined for future companies because of the antics of a very vocal, and therefore visible, company like Defiance. It is like an entire football team working hard every day, but being overshadowed by the foolishness of one celebrity star player.

So basically Defiance, you talk a big game. You have to back it up. Otherwise get some humility and just play ball. These aren't the finest models ever produced, and that's okay. There is a real market for decent, cheap models. Just be realistic and honest about it. Don't announce a firm release date until the physical sprues are in your hands and to your satisfaction. Hire a good painter and photographer. Make a nice presentation and let the models sell themselves.

None of this is meant to be confrontational or mean in any way. It is just some constructive advice. If you can learn from your mistakes and grow from then, we should all give you a chance. You could prove that it is viable to start a mini company from nothing, use the newest technologies, and produce a good product at a fair price. But if the next releases continue down the same path as the marines, you could lose all trust, and sour people on renders, preorders, and startup companies for a long time.

I really don't think any one company can permanently or even temporarily damage the willingness of gamers to either pre-order or participate in crowd funding.

Thanks to the internet, we've hit a point where the people making things can get directly in touch with those who want them. Things like Kickstarter, Indiegogo and even individual approaches can raise capital needed to get things made.

People are excited about being part of bringing something they think is cool to fruition. If someone screws that up on the producer side, it won't sour everyone to the process. Not anymore than having an internet shopping problem sours other people to online shopping.

People are simply not saying to themselves "Defiance took really long to get those marines out. I better not participate in any crowdfunding because I could have to wait a few extra months! That would be horrible."

The opposite is occurring. More and more people are participating in these kinds of programs.

The worst that can happen is that if Defiance has similar delays on all their releases is that they become known as the company that fails to meet release dates really badly. And if it doesn't really happen again and releases are timely, the delay with these marines will be largely forgotten.

Thanks to the internet, we've hit a point where the people making things can get directly in touch with those who want them. Things like Kickstarter, Indiegogo and even individual approaches can raise capital needed to get things made.

People are simply not saying to themselves "Defiance took really long to get those marines out. I better not participate in any crowdfunding because I could have to wait a few extra months! That would be horrible."

The opposite is occurring. More and more people are participating in these kinds of programs.
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Kickstarter, Indiegogo, crowdfunding?

Don't want to sound too old world but are these all American things cos never heard of any of them over here.