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Andrew Beasley Inactive Member07 May 2012 1:58 a.m. PST

From the Ogre Kickstarter news letter:

At the bottom of the main page we have added four new stretch goals, including two which supplement upcoming goals that turned out to be SO noncontroversial that some of you were bored. Okay, we didn't come here to be boring.
And yes, this is the update that announces the surprise.
Background: Because this project has gotten so much support, we've managed to address almost every one of your frequent requests. We ditched the dry-erase sheets in favor of an app; then we worked a flexible erasable sheet back in because some of you really wanted it. We have committed to re-releasing the miniatures and the separate miniatures rules. You asked for a pocket version of the game, and you got it, using the classic counter designs. There will also be a large-sized set of classic counters available as an extra. Even some "flat Ogre" counters will appear, thanks to the generosity of sponsor Michael Johnston. We said "no" to a couple of other requests that might go back on the table anyway now that our print run nears 6,000 (surrrrrvey coming, but later).
But one comment that appears over and over is . . . "Bring Back Car Wars!"
Which is not Ogre! But we're about to make some of you very happy anyway.
We know that others will be unhappy because, well, it's not Ogre. True. But we are enlisting help from Car Wars fans to get the word out about Ogre, and Ogre fans will like the new goal PAST the Car Wars goal. I hope you like that, at least!
Others will be unhappy because, once again, we are not following the standard Kickstarter model. We know that! We're offering a new model, and it works. We are an established company, not a startup, and we are using Kickstarter, plus surveys, to tell us what NEW things the fans want us to do. Otherwise, we'd just keep doing the same things we've done for the past several years, and that doesn't stretch US.
We're learning a lot, and we've used the stretch goals both to make a bigger, better game, and to build up the Ogre community to last long after this project is done. This idea has proven itself by generating over a half-million dollars, a print run twice what we originally planned, and a busy 2013 schedule for a game that was going to be a one-shot. Others will do what we are doing now. It will be good for the game hobby. Enjoy the ride!
So enough beating around the bush. Let's talk about Car Wars.The $700 USDK goal for this project will be: We will start a survey-driven Kickstarter project for Car Wars. You can read more about it, and the other new goals, in the Stretch Goals section at the bottom of the main page.
What if you are a Car Wars fan who doesn't want a big Ogre game? Then do not buy the big Ogre game! We built this company by selling you what you DO want. Okay?
Instead. . .
(1) We're going to do a multicolored Car Wars shirt, based on the art from the very first edition of the game. Here's a nice scan from BGG. Of course, this is a Kickstarter exclusive.
It will say "I Made Steve Jackson Work On Car Wars." Today, Sunday, you have to see it in your head, because the art isn't finished. It's a new $23 USD support level, or $30 USD internationally, or you can add it as an extra to another level for $23. USD
(2) What will help the very most, if you are a Car Wars fan, is to spread the word! We have less than a week to go. Tell your friends about this Ogre project. Work that social media! If you reach fans of Car Wars, they can join in telling us to do that project. If they like Ogre, they can support us and get a good game, and their support will help this project . . . which will also prove to us that we HAVE to do Car Wars.
- Steve Jackson

Link is link

Volstagg Vanir07 May 2012 4:18 a.m. PST

In summary, If you like CarWars a lot;
You now have a chance to buy an exclusive CarWars T-Shirt.
If enough people buy a Tshirt (and/or a lot more people buy OGRE stuff)
CarWars gets a new edition at the end of the year.

A relatively decent way to combine market research w/
existing & ongoing projects/ campaigns.
Something for Everybody…)

Personal logo Murphy Sponsoring Member of TMP07 May 2012 4:21 a.m. PST

Wow…I used to be a big time Car Wars fan…had quite a few of the arenas, and some of the Autodueling quarterly publications that came out, along with good old Uncle Alberts catalog…


The only bummer was the early computer game which was just badly done, and then the expansions that included boats, and aircraft….

Dynaman878907 May 2012 4:27 a.m. PST

> and then the expansions that included boats

Without the boats we would never of had the fishing tournament scenario – the ONLY required bit of equipment was a beer cooler…

Chef Lackey Rich Fezian Inactive Member07 May 2012 4:35 a.m. PST

Maybe we'll get new crossover with Hero Games and a new edition of Autoduel Champions. Supers versus armed cars, what's not to love?

Sundance Supporting Member of TMP07 May 2012 5:28 a.m. PST

I built a 3D autodueling arena set in a quarry once.

SonofThor Inactive Member07 May 2012 6:35 a.m. PST

I've still got the Micro versions of the game, it would be great to see it go back into print.

skippy0001 Supporting Member of TMP07 May 2012 7:06 a.m. PST

I'd rather see Triplanetary re-done.

Personal logo elsyrsyn Supporting Member of TMP07 May 2012 7:24 a.m. PST

Ogre does not tempt me much (since I have the miniatures rules anyway), but Car Wars was a favorite for many years. I wonder if I would not be better off, though, just getting out the old pocket boxes and playing that.


Personal logo J Womack 94 Supporting Member of TMP Inactive Member07 May 2012 7:25 a.m. PST

I used to subscribe to ADQ, back in the day.

And I loved the microplanes. Need zeppelin rules. But leave the tanks and such out. I mean, if it gets to that point, there are plenty of other games for it.

Personal logo J Womack 94 Supporting Member of TMP Inactive Member07 May 2012 7:30 a.m. PST

Oh, and keep it with Matchbox car scale. Makes the minis easy to find. grin

jpattern207 May 2012 8:03 a.m. PST

I used to subscribe to ADQ, too, JW, from the first issue to the last. Still have all of them, as well as all of Uncle Albert's catalogs.

I also like the microplanes and the boats, but not the tanks.

I have a few converted Matchbox/Hot Wheels cars (and boats), so I'd like to see that scale return, although the original scale would be cool if someone does minis in that scale (again). Roughly 6mm or 1/300, as I recall.

Personal logo javelin98 Supporting Member of TMP07 May 2012 8:52 a.m. PST

If it's done in Matchbox scale, then SJG could produce a sprue of conversion parts. Those could also be used in 15mm games, as well, so I think they would be very popular. I proposed this on the SJG forums around 2006 or so and never got any kind of response from SJ, if I recall correctly.

The Gonk Inactive Member07 May 2012 9:02 a.m. PST

I'd feel more comfortable knowing it was going to be similar to the old, build-your-own rules, and not another attempt at something entirely new.

Farstar Inactive Member07 May 2012 9:43 a.m. PST

Maybe we'll get new crossover with Hero Games and a new edition of Autoduel Champions. Supers versus armed cars, what's not to love?

Since Hero has closed up shop after selling off the Champions name and setting (such as it is) to some fool MMORG developer, that path seems unlikely.

Personal logo elsyrsyn Supporting Member of TMP07 May 2012 9:44 a.m. PST

Oh yeah. Subscribed to ADQ. Have a few of the AADA Road Atlas and Survival Guides. Have all of the expansions from the pocket box through Dueltrack and the Compendium. All of the Uncle Al's catalogs. I was way into Car Wars. Absolutely loved the game.

It's hard for me to say precisely where Car Wars jumped the shark. I remember thinking that the microplanes were awesome, and that the boats and hovers were fantastic, and that the gas engines and racing stuff was great. About the only thing I was not into was the tanks. It was as if I got enthused about each addition as they came along, and did not realize the weight eash was adding to an already overburdened (ahem) chassis.

Then suddenly the whole thing crashed into a pile and became Car Fleet Battles. I don't know what that last straw was, so it would be hard to recreate the old game from its various pieces and not have it go down the same rabbit hole. If they can make a new version of the game that is at the same time expanded, and also like it used to be (a great vehicle design meta game that you can spend hours with, paired with a good set of reasonably fast playing tactical rules) then I would probably buy in.

I'd prefer 1/300 for scale.


Farstar Inactive Member07 May 2012 9:51 a.m. PST

Then suddenly the whole thing crashed into a pile and became Car Fleet Battles. I don't know what that last straw was

For me it was the Tanks, but I was hearing the CFB term applied to the game by about the third Uncle Al catalog.

dglennjr Inactive Member07 May 2012 10:40 a.m. PST

I've got everything they ever made for Car Wars and even contributed material for the East Coast Atlas.

We still play it here, but always at 300% scale (matchbox size with 20mm figures.)

-David G.

Dynaman878907 May 2012 10:49 a.m. PST

Car Wars is a game that suffered from Feedback loop syndrome, those who bought it asked for more and more complexity till it got to the point where it chased away new players – the attempt to restart the game a decade or so ago made the mistake of doing away with vehicle design. Hopefully a new version of CW will bring back the simplicity of the original Pocketbox game with some more visual ooomph.

Checker's Pizza, We deliver!

Personal logo SBminisguy Supporting Member of TMP07 May 2012 10:56 a.m. PST

At one point I had completely converted my group over to AutoDuel/Champions style Car Wars where you had more fun, rich driving mechanics and combat mechanics. I really liked the armor penetration system in AD/C, where shots would bounce rather than degrade or ablate your armor, and if a shot penetrated you has dome serious issues! Then once GURPS Autoduel came out, we went that way. Oh, always using 20mm Matchbox cars and figures from Stan Johansen's lines.

Personal logo J Womack 94 Supporting Member of TMP Inactive Member07 May 2012 10:57 a.m. PST

Stan Johansen does some add-ons for Matchbox cars, and also does bikers in scale.


Greenfield Games Inactive Member07 May 2012 1:43 p.m. PST

I just did the retail level for the Ogre kickstarter and I'm really looking forward to seeing the Car Wars one happen.

Fabe Mrk 2 Inactive Member07 May 2012 9:35 p.m. PST


I have all of the stuff from the last edition of Car War and remember that the design rules along with rules for bikes were going to be the next things released before the line got cancelled. A shame really because me and my gaming group had lots of fun playing it.

infojunky07 May 2012 11:39 p.m. PST

Hum, maybe we will see the rules for Lego Car Wars, yes I said it Lego Mini Scale Car Wars…….

Hum, maybe I will unleash the Boy on that one.

Dynaman878908 May 2012 4:04 a.m. PST

> the design rules along with rules for bikes were going to be the next things released

I even saw some of the playtest material for that, but the design system should have been front and center – the fact it was missing is a large part of what killed the new release.

Fabe Mrk 2 Inactive Member08 May 2012 6:13 a.m. PST

Cool,but yeah the lack of design system and the format of releasing the same set of rules over and over with two different vehicles in each did not help what was a pretty good game.

richarDISNEY Inactive Member08 May 2012 8:46 a.m. PST

I used to love the race car additions…

Personal logo javelin98 Supporting Member of TMP08 May 2012 10:37 a.m. PST

The purest form of Car Wars, for me, was the "Chassis and Crossbows" sub-rules. I loved regular CW, but there was something about C&C that was so much more visceral and satisfying.

Personal logo J Womack 94 Supporting Member of TMP Inactive Member08 May 2012 11:06 a.m. PST

C&C was Mad Max. Road Warrior, baby! Last of the V8 Interceptors.

It's all about the juice!

jpattern208 May 2012 6:17 p.m. PST

"Chassis and Crossbows" was a great variation on the rules. We played that almost as much as we did "full" Car Wars.

Chef Lackey Rich Fezian Inactive Member08 May 2012 7:42 p.m. PST

Since Hero has closed up shop after selling off the Champions name and setting (such as it is) to some fool MMORG developer, that path seems unlikely.

Where are you getting that from, Farstar? Hero's still operational, albeit in a much-reduced state, and they're starting to use Kickstarter themselves to guarantee profitability on new projects. I don't see anything supporting the "closed up shop" statement on their site, their forums, or any of the retailer pipeline sites I still haunt. AFAIK they're not in great shape (the layoffs were pretty hard news) but they aren't teetering on the brink either. You know something I don't?

That said, no, I don't really expect Autoduel Champions 2.0 – but it would be funny if it happened.

richarDISNEY Inactive Member09 May 2012 7:42 a.m. PST

Chassis and Crossbows
Oh yea! ADQ V1 I3, right? And that is from memory!
That was an awesome edition to the game!
I was also a subscriber to ADQ back in high school.
Another article on it: link

Farstar Inactive Member09 May 2012 3:55 p.m. PST

I don't see anything supporting the "closed up shop" statement on their site, their forums, or any of the retailer pipeline sites I still haunt.

Fascinating. The press release from early February has been respun as layoffs for the good of the company.

I do have to wonder what an author-owned game company does without the author-owner…

SCAdian Inactive Member09 May 2012 4:52 p.m. PST

Drive Offensively! Kickstarter project for Car Wars is a go.

mykilus Inactive Member06 Nov 2014 4:32 a.m. PST

Just been reading this.. its 6th November 2014 and still no sign of the Kickstarter…..

anyone know anything???

Whitestreak Supporting Member of TMP08 Nov 2014 12:17 a.m. PST

At this point, SJG is still working on the game itself. They're playtesting, in house, and from info on the restricted access forum, they plan on showing it BGG Con.

From what has been said, they intend to have the game ready for production before the Kickstarter campaign begins. It looks to be sometime next year before that point is reached.

badger22 Inactive Member10 Nov 2014 4:49 a.m. PST

So wil;l the wait be as long as for Ogre? I am not sure I want to tioe up a big chunk of my yearly game budget for an extended period of time.


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