"Varnish disaster recovery: it worked " Topic

Ok, I guess I need to give [important] feedback to all those you who may face the same issue again.

In short, the recovery method discussed previously worked.

I had a nice lot of figures, varnished gloss with spray.
A couple of hours after that, I sprayed with the matt varnish and 20 minutes later the dreaded white layer appeared.

I spayed immediately the figures with GLOSS varnish, GENEROUSLY.

Figures saved.

then applied with a brush the matt varnish. No issue.

As Old Lodge Skins said, "Wometimes the magic works, sometimes it doesn't."

eeeks !

Is a 'couple of hours' enough time for the gloss coat to dry thoroughly I wonder ?

Could be one of a million different variables at work here. Glad it worked out in the end – good save !!

It's a lot to do with temperature, humidity, quantity of varnish and brand of varnish. I have waited 24 hours between gloss and matt and still got the dreaded frosting, but then I've also waited 1/2 an hour and got perfect results. I haven't had a problem since I started using Testors Matt varnish, though.

I use GW two coats of Purity seal followed by a coat of Testors matt for infantry and three coats of GW purity seal for most vehicles – the slightly satin finish seems to look better on vehicles.

army painter anti-shine is great it will not work properly in humid conditions vellejo make a gloss varnish that dries quickly.
Winsor & Newton make acrylic varnish I`ve used all winter..I think its still winter by how cold it is & wet.

I always put the figs under a heatlamp after spraying /sealing
Since I started doing that, I never had the 'white's issue..

I have put minis in the oven @ 200 degrees for 30 min after sealing and have never had a problem.

helmet 101 can you tell the class the brand of both spays and can varnish?

Quintili Varne, legiones redde! ??

Had the same problem recently with GW clear (satin) varnish. Not quite sure whether humidity or a slightly old can of varnish was at fault.

A good friend recommended olive oil – worked like a charm! Have to assume that nothing else will ever stick to those figures from now on, though…

It's all about the moisture/temperature environment with brush on and spray, though with spray it is possibe to get frost by holding the can too far from the object being sprayed, causing already dried droplets to adhere roughly to the surface.

Moisture creates pockets and irregularities in the finish that appear as 'frost' when it dries. This is usually a problem with matte or satins, as they are designed already to leave an irregular surface when dry, that reflects light less directly as it skewes the refraction of light waves. "Frost' could be viewed as 'extreme matte' in that it is such an irregular surface the light cant bounce off the color underneath at all. Gloss on the other hand is designed to create a smooth surface when dry, allowing the color underneath to shine as light bounces directly off it without irregular refraction. (This is how flat to gloss finish paint works as well)

The best technique involves low humidity application, but heat curing with a lamp or oven will also bake the moisture out (200 degrees would be the absolute max you would want to subject the paint under it to, but a 200 degree oven is usually a few degrees cooler in reality)

Olive oil 'fills' the irregularities temporarily, but you will not want it on there after some time passes, for it will become tacky when it breaks down, and it will cease to provide that function unless you keep oiling them. Mineral oil will last longer (use over acrylic paint only), but I would suggest you gently use soap and water to get all the oil off, and spray with a gloss finish. This will permantly cure the 'frost' by smoothing the irregularities and you can then re-apply matte or satin in low humidity conditions for a permanant repair :)

Thank you very much GQG, your advice is much valued!
I shall probably treat most of the now oiled figures as you suggest, leaving just a few as an experiment.

I've got to weigh in with some of the comments above and say that your prime suspect should be humidity levels.

That said, glad that your salvage attempt was a success!

……though with spray it is possibe to get frost by holding the can too far from the object being sprayed, causing already dried droplets to adhere roughly to the surface….

That is a great tip GQG. I believe that is the case. Thanks.

This is a good technique; but just to let you know whilst this can work, it can also fail to restore the colours.

Hi

Having tried to soak some bases off of Figures I had bought on line, I fond that they were not detaching I went for total immersion as a solution, which worked.

However on the figures drying I got the dreaded Dull white frosting, initially I thought that this was the varnish washing off as the bottom half of the figure was not as bad as the top. Repeated immersion only made things worse when wet they looked good on drying they go duller and duller.

Having checked these boards I decided to try immersing them in water again to remove the opaque dull sheen then putting them in the oven Gas Mark 4 (190 degrees C). The Test figure came out great I then tried to do them on mass, Having set the 20 or so figures up half of them ell over as I went to put them in the oven. By the time I had them se up again they were already turning Opaque. I decided to do the two excellent painted French Generals, I stood the up right and being Mounted figures gave them 15 mins.

Disaster… The base melted and the figures fell over one the head fell off when I went to pick it up the other had turned one side into flats.

I then temporally based the Figures using superglue as they then need immersing to remove the opaque colour. 15 mins later I popped them in the Oven gas mark 3 (180 degrees C)

This worked, so my answer is

Base the figures so they wont fall down in the over Immerse the figures in water until clear and pop in the oven at Gas Mark 3 (180 Degrees C) for 10 minutes.

All th e figures came out clear again.

Just respray them gloss then matt, worked for me the only time i've had this problem.

You might want to think about brush on Varnish. I took J.Taylor advise about 8 years ago, I'll never go back to spray Varnish.

Check the labels of your varnish. Mine tend to say add another coat within 20 minutes or after 24 hours. I tend to hit with a "Matte" Rust-Oleum and then dullcoat, all within twenty minutes. I take the twenty minutes very seriously and if another coat is needed, I wait until another day.

I've always dry-brushed Winsor & Newton Matt Varnish across the mini, allow to dry for a day and then dry-brush Humbrol Matt cote.
Allow to dry for a day and repeat the process until I'm satisfied the mini is sealed.

Just need to be patient.

Only once used a spray varnish, never again!

Stuart.

It didn't matter what brand spray- I've had issues with all of them at one point or another. The culprits have either been temperature or humidity. As a result I've been painting matte finish on with a brush for over 6 months now and have been very happy with the results.

Wizbangs….I started applying my varnish with an airbrush over the last few months. Highly recommended.