""Fleet action" scale starship mini sizes?" Topic

When considering "fleet action" scale miniatures, such as most of GZG and Brigade Models starships (and the original Babylon 5 Fleet Action from AOG, whence comes the term, I believe), what would you consider to be roughly standard dimensions? For starters, how would the following size/class scheme sound:

Destroyers/Corvettes: 10mm to 15mm
Frigates: 15mm to 20mm
Light Cruisers: 18mm to 25mm
Heavy Cruisers/Battlecruisers: 25mm to 40mm
Battleships: 40mm to 60mm
Dreadnoughts: 50mm to 80mm
Light Carriers: 30mm to 50mm
Heavy Carriers: 40mm to 80mm

Would that sound fairly consistent with current "fleet action" minis offerings on the market?

Thanks,
jav98

I would add at least 10mm to all of those:
10mmDestroyers/Corvettes: 20mm to 25mm
Frigates: 25mm to 30mm
Light Cruisers: 30mm to 35mm
Heavy Cruisers/Battlecruisers: 35mm to 50mm
Battleships: 50mm to 70mm
Dreadnoughts: 60mm to 90mm
Light Carriers: 40mm to 60mm
Heavy Carriers: 50mm to 90mm

There are now three size ranges, IMO.

"Fleet" scale (smaller B5 line is prime example) is where only the largest capital hulls are larger than the flight base, and even the little escorts may be scale-exaggerated.

"Standard" scale (most lines) escapes the bounds of the flight base at the bottom of the capital hull range: cruisers typically, and can have the big hulls be a few inches long/wide/tall (though generally not all at once). Only Fighters are typically scale breakers.

"Spectacle" Scale (Firestorm Armada) has to increase the size of the flight base to keep the Destroyers and Frigates from slopping over the edges, but they often do anyway. Fighters are often still scale breakers, but now you have the problem of the super-capitals being almost too large to play with. Firestorm Armada is noteworthy for having battleships that don't move their own length in a turn.

Starships being a bit slippery when it comes to precise size, none of these are actually scales. They are tabletop size regimes that control (or are the result of) the scale of conflict being played. For example, Silent Death is technically Standard Scale as only the larger hulls exceed the size of the flight base, despite the fact that the game is all about fighters.

"Fleet" scale (smaller B5 line is prime example)
"Standard" scale (most lines)
"Spectacle" Scale (Firestorm Armada)

I've never heard of those definitions before. And don't they depend on the size of the flight base being used?

I don't think comparing figure to base size is very useful anymore, what with GW and Mongoose and Spartan and MKP all selling ones that are larger than the traditional 1" bases. Even GZG has bigger metal bases for their heavyweights.

Probably better to say that "standard" scale has small ships that are mostly an inch or less in length, mid-sized ships that vary from one to two inches, and big ships that go up to five or six. "Fleet action" scale ships are smaller, with the biggest dreads under 3-4 inches and more variety in the teeny undar-an-inch category.

"Spectacle" (good name for it, IMO) varies a lot, but I'd include Battlefleet Gothic and Galactic Knights in the category. It doesn't actually include big ships that are all that much larger than "standard" in terms of length (the biggest Firestorm hull I've seen is "only" seven inches long) but they all tend to be bulkier and their "small" ships would make good "standard" cruisers, with no really dinky stuff at all. BFG is maybe an exception to that – their little guys would be light ships in standard scale as well, but there's a big gap between them and the BFG cruisers (which make good battleships in standard scale).

Note that both the Brigade and GZG ship ranges are (to me, anyway) the epitome of "standard" scale. They also generally include enough variety in terms of sculpts and sizes to be useful for "fleet action" (by restricting yourself to the smaller figs in a given range) and to a degree for "spectacle" games as well. They can't quite match the size of Firestorm's big stuff, but an all-dreadnought fleet of Full Thrust figs is still pretty striking on the tabletop.

I was using the current GW flight base, which is about 30mm, as the standard. It is about the same size as the venerable GZG metal flight base and the old SFB flight base. The "bigger than a flight base" thing was more for descriptive purposes than to be used as a standard. Fleet scale stuff is very small, Spectacle scale stuff is rather large, and Standard scale stuff sits between.

the biggest Firestorm hull I've seen is "only" seven inches long

But even their Cruisers are around four inches long. When the standard ships of the line are visible and distinguishable from across the room, you've hit Spectacle scale. Standing at the table to identify a Cruiser is likely Standard scale, and picking a ship up to identify a cruiser is probably Fleet scale.

Sure – my point was that the greatest size differences between "spectacle" and "standard" occur in the small and medium ships. If their biggest stuff was as much larger as a same-class "standard" ship as the lighter classes are, those seven inch battleships would be a foot long. Bit much for most gaming tables.

Personally my own version of fleet scale fits pretty much with Javelin's measurements. I try to keep to the largest ships will coming in at 80mm or under.

For many of my fleets, that means using a GZG heavy cruiser as a superdreadnaught, and so on proportionally down the range.

Keeps costs down, and saves space, as limited for storage and for playing room

Starship Combat News has a great discussion of miniatures scale.

star-ranger.com/Scale.htm

For fleet scale I scale my miniatures around the Agents of Gaming Fleet Scale B5 miniatures. I also question your placement of frigates as larger than destroyers. IMHO the destroyer is larger.

I also question your placement of frigates as larger than destroyers. IMHO the destroyer is larger.

That seems to be the way most space games have gone, with Corvettes and Frigates at the bottom. The original definition of the Frigate from the age of sail did not include size, and some were quite large, but that understanding of the term seems to have disappeared in modern usage.

On my Scale page that Allen57 mentions above, I do list lengths of miniatures for many common lines of minis if that will help you figure out what goes where. The lengths the OP lists are pretty close to what I have identified as Fleet scale but I really should include the lengths of the B5 Fleet Action minis for a good reference.

I do like Farstar's naming of the Spectacle scale, much more interesting than calling them Large Scale like I do so I might have to borrow it (giving credit of coarse).

I do like Farstar's naming of the Spectacle scale, much more interesting than calling them Large Scale like I do so I might have to borrow it (giving credit of coarse).

It certainly sounds better than the "stupidly huge" I'd been using. :)

I would agree that an additional +10mm would bring them in line. Of course the individual design concepts for the fleet in question would need to be taken into account as well as the settings they are designed for.

-Eli

Oh, right -- I've been reading Hornblower to my kids, so I was thinking "frigates" in that sense. So, okay, if we swap frigates and destroyers, that feels better.

Those size comparisons on the SCN page are excellent! I'll be referring to that quite often. Thanks, all!

I think FArstar has pretty much nailed the differences in generaal….. I myself prefer the Fleet Action (smallest size) ones.

I thought B5 had totally scrambled 'destroyer' for space ships. ;->=

Remember, it's a very recent term, for a long time a very limited scope. 'Killer of boats'…

I think FArstar has pretty much nailed the differences in generaal…

Perhaps, but with my eyesight, I have to pick up everything to view it. Still, I'd accept it, agree with the Spectacle term being the bee's knees, and that I prefer the smaller the better in most cases.

I'm the midst of converting some squirt guns, and those will definitely be Spectacle. The REAL fun would be making a spaceship costume.

I've always wanted to make a Spectacle out of myself…

Doug