"Pyrrhic Heavy Cavalrry ready - Aventine" Topic

I have just finished them.

Cheers

Keith

Awsome, brilliant, fantastic – must buy some.

They look absolutely stunning!
Any chance you might be doing some Selucid stuff – Agema & Cataphracts
The ones available from other manufacturers are just not in the same league as these sculpts

BTW Does anyone carry these at UK shows?

GS

We will be adding some of the Seleucid types in due course, it is all a matter of time and there not being enough of it…lol

We do not have anyone carrying our products as VAT is a problem. We intend to be at some shows ourselves next year and both Adam and I will be at Partizan later this month with a demo game being put on by Craig Davey(Heraclea).

Cheers

Keith

Ah…an excuse to do Pyrrhus in 28mm as well as 15mm!

Gorgeous.

I take it his Italiote cavalry are next :)

Outstanding!

Doug

Freecloud

We will finish the lance armed versions before converting the lot into the lightspear/shield variants. We have swordsmen and cloaked bodyguards on the table along with another horse (makes 6 + the officers one). We need skirmishing light infantry asap so they will have to wait on them.

Cheers

Keith

Keith

These are really gorgeous.

Cheers

James

Love those Horses and great looking riders!

Keith, I WILL be getting some SOOOOON!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mike

Great looking figures once again.

Raglan

Yep definitely need skirmishers. Some cretan archers would be good in the future.

When will Oscans be done?

Those spears look too short to be considered lances/xyston. I can guarantee they are shorter then the Aventine moulded spears. I'd be happy sticking shields on these.

John O

The Xyston was a two handed lance not couched like the one example with lowered lance. Nit picking perhaps but others will notice for sure.

There is no depiction of a xyston being used two handed.
The Issus Mosaic, the Alexander Sarcophagus, and the Kinch Tomb show a long spear used both overarm and underarm, but not as a kontos, that is, not with two hands. The Kinch Tomb is especially clear.

The sarissaphoroi or lancers, may have had shortened pikes, and these most likely were wielded in two hands. Pyrrhus had no lancers units as far as we know. They seem to have disapeared during the long drawn out Diadochian wars, and the last time they seem to be mentioned is at Gabiene.

So underarm and overarm poses are just fine by me, and these look great by the way.
JJ

Excellent looking figures. Is there aything that makes these specifically Phyrric rather than any other early Successor cavalry?

Hi,

Nothing makes them specifically Pyrrhic. I'm certainly planning to use them as generic Successor lancers, albeit their first use will be in a Pyrrhic army. When the Agema come out, I believe part if the command pack will be a Pyrrus figure; that's a bit harder to blag! Goat horns, anyone?

Regards,
Craig

PS can't wait for mine to arrive – busy holiday weekend coming
up :-)

Hi Craig

They should be waiting for you when you get home…lol

There is nothing about them that would make them specifically Pyrrhic, they are heavy cavalry of the successor period. We will show them with the lighter spear shield option soon, I need to get my contribution to the Partizan game painted first.

The next bunch (cloaked guard cavalry) Agema for Pyrrhus will be ready next week. Then it is the light infantry

Cheers

Keith

I just looked at the horses on their website again, those are fantastic miniatures. I hope they will be available for "EIR" cavalry.

OLDBOB

The answer is yes, change of bit and tackle and there you go EIR horses.

Cheers

Keith

Happy Happy Joy Joy!

Hi Keith,

Duly waiting, as advertised. ;-)

Regards,
Craig

My greatest fear is that my wife may cite Aventine in the divorce proceedings for abuse of income. Ho hum…. I'll certainly be ordering a unit.

Keep up the good work, Keith.

The Colonel

Jeff,

Thanks for that. I was obviously thinking more kontos then xyston but suddenly realised I'd been thinking that way due to rules treatment of the them as essentially the same.

I've never thought lance was an appropriate classification for either the xyston or kontos which it is in many rules. Given that the xyston was used one handed and could not be couched it probably should be reclassified in most rules as a thrusting spear.

John O

Keith,

Could some of these be used as Carthaginian hvy cav?

Also, when do you think you'll do more Carthaginian and allied figures?

I don't see why not GDrover. I think wargamers tend to pigeonhole certain equipment as only used by particular armies. I'm certain that Hellenistic military fashions including armour were copied the length and breadth of the Med and beyond. I'd be happy to field these as Hellenistic cavalry right up to and including Pontics though a few more "Persian" touches would be nice for the realms of the middle east, Bactria etc

Glen

What Malekithau said is what we think. We offer to exchange shields on all our figures and that maybe a way to make a difference for table usage. We will be adding photos with some shields attached soon, the spined cavalry shield seems to have been wide spread as does the small round pelt/small hoplon types.

Cheers

Keith

I think these will work for many Hellenistic cavalry. They may be a bit sophisticated for Pyrrhus- since I would think they still wore more Boeotian style helmets then. For example Roman cavalry started wearing Boeotian style helmets… my assumption is this started up after meeting Pyrrhus' cavalry…. but I need to look that up.
My current view is that the xyston (as described in Macedonian use) is just a slightly longer… and thinner version of the hoplite spear. But the written evidence and pictorial evidence don't often jive up. Arrian equated the xyston to the kontos of his day… which is confusing when you read his book and realize that in no instance is the tactics and usage of a xyston described like a kontos …. instead time after time he describes agile aiming for faces… and or breaking on impact and utilizing the lizard sticker end…. sturdy two handed kontos barge poles are not as likely to be wielded so nimbly or break so often. In fact the dude on the mosaic behind Alexander…. is he wielding his xyston overhand…. seems kind of short eh…
JJ

Sorry I did not include the reference:

The dude behind Alexander… is he using and regular size xyston overhand… and does Alexander have an elongated "sarissaphoroi" spear? Some have stuped to the dude behind has a broken spear and is using the butt spike.
Note also that the reconstruction of the length of the spear Alexander has is totally based on the fragment hole that seems to be a butt spike, but could easily be something else, or a spear wielded by a lost opposing combatant…..
Oh and just for kicks…

JJ we're looking at an artists rendition from around 100b.c., whos to say that he got all that he put down 100%. Wouldn't the Alexander Sarcophagus be more accurate as it was closer to Alexanders time than the Mosaic?

Mike

P.S. Nice minis!

The mosaic is based on a painting commissioned by an artist contemporary with Alexander, who may have been Apelles (Alexander's court artist). The mosaic itself was not constructed at Pompeii, but was moved there from parts unknown. So it is actually the same period as the Sarcophagus, roughly speaking.
JJ

Looking further at the mosaic we can see the re-armed Persian guard cavalry I presume – armed with xyston? Now all we need is for the various lists to allow for this 'fact'.

Hmmm, I trust you JJ. But is that for certain that the mosaic was transported artwork that origionates from Alexanders day? That piece was transported again to the Napes meuseum IIRC…

Wonder if there was evidence of it being move to the Pompeii location…

Mike

"Wonder if there was evidence of it being move to the Pompeii location…"

Yes there is some… experts on mosaics say it was not created in Italy, and the evidence of how it was chopped up for transport is clear. The mosaic is not contemporary with Alexander…. but the painting was contemporary with Alexander's immediate Successors, it was based was well known and written about but has not survived.

This book has the most fabulous pictures of the mosaic ever:
Apelles: The Alexander Mosaic [Hardcover]
Paolo Moreno (Author)

The author is firmly in the camp that it was an Apelles work, and has some compelling arguments that it is Gaugamela rather than Issus being depicted.
JJ

"Looking further at the mosaic we can see the re-armed Persian guard cavalry I presume – armed with xyston? Now all we need is for the various lists to allow for this 'fact'."

And yet the cavalryman in the center foreground has typical Persian armament, which makes it hardly a closed case:

Nothing is certain I suppose.