"So...What's Missing?" Topic

I think it's time to hear from 28mm gamers about what they think is needed these days in the miniature market.

I'm more looking for non-40K'ers to speak up and give an opinion about what they'd like to see. Seems like there should be something beyond modern humans with chest plates and goggles.

Any thoughts?

Wild West sci-fi stuff a la Firefly?

AFV's

Droids, robots and larger murdermachines

Power armor al a Dragonstar Rising.

I'd like to see Starcraft in 28mm: Terrans, Protoss and Zergs.

Generic gangers of the cyberpunk and/or madmax variety, with assorted weapon and equipment options.

Well, looks like it's time for ye ole dog & pony show again – pretty much the same question gets asked a couple of times a year, see (-:)

Anyhow:
#1: nonhumanoid techy aliens – not "bugs" (e.g. Tyranids, movie Starship Troopers bugs etc.) as such, although there is nothing nothing wrong with trying to pass off something vaguely insectoid.
#2: really futuristic looking buildings; for dog's sake, Frank blooming Lloyd Wright and Antoni Gaudi designed more futuristic-looking stuff some 100 years ago than you by and large get today for the tabletop – not that all their design were realized but that's a different issue.

Elaborations upon request (-:)

Armoured vehicles
Mecha
Lizard Men
Ogres in powered armour that AREN'T idiots
Lizard men in powered armour and a high tech level
Drop-ships

Robots definately

- Less blatantly humanoid aliens:
e.g. hexapodial centaur-type ones, with the elbows and knees angled backward -and perhaps two on each limb- no nose but gills-like aperture on the neck, and a lower jaw not obviously of same embryonic origin as ours, spider (Predator) or beetle type mandible for instance.

- scantily clad bodilicious female space heroes:

Adults males playing with toy soldiers remained very young in heart…

Well, yes, there are rarely enough boobs on the market. Or skulls. Or boobs with skulls on them. Tho the other way around is something we don't want to think about.

plastic multi-part 28mm future marines?

Futuristic buildings that aren't Swiss Cheese gothic ruins. I need buildings that block line of sight.

Serious power armor. Book SST style, fast, but a bit bulky and deadly.

I think the idea about civilians/soldiers/renegades from the Firefly 'verse would be great idea (Browncoats!)

Forgot to add: Civilian vehicles. Not Mad Max stuff, real civilian vehicles. Not just cars, but commercial trucks and big cargo haulers, too.

4 new Guardian Robots out today FTI:

link

/Dee

Yea…
What abdul666lw said.
Also there really does seem to be a shortage of robots out there…

Seconding tnjrp:

Aliens of all types. Ones that actually look alien, rather than just "dude in a rubber suit." Fully-developed ranges of weird, vaguely plausible critters with guns.

Also:

I'd like to see more Steampunk stuff a la Warmachine as opposed to VSF Gentlemen in SPAAAACE! Big, bulky, steam-belching machines that DON'T look like Clockwork Contraptions.

I've noticed, lately, that several people have been doing projects inspired by The Thing, so howabout some of those? Really weird, ugly, body horror parasites. They'd be fun to paint, too!

Female minis that DON'T look like porn stars. You know, maybe a few girls in plausible looking armor in poses that look like they mean business.

I'd love some 28mm versions of my micro armor stuff… like ZSU-23-4, BMD, an AVLB of some sort… Good for modern, but also for future stuff… (today's frontline weapon its tomorrows ad-hoc 3rd line stuff)

Dropships for scif. NEVER have enough dropships for scifi…

Rioters, with signs and molotovs. Again, good for ANY time frame.

@Antenocitis CSR: You should really start a thread of your own if you want to advertise your stuff. I would have sent a PM but you turned them off.

So it seems like you guys want more non-combatants and more vehicles.

The aliens discussion is almost never-ending, a small company like Mad Robot needs to balance putting out something original with putting out something that will sell.

With that in mind, what's the reason for wanting non-humanoid aliens? Just something new and different?

There's always room for more "Oppenheimer's Vision of the Future" troopers. I speak mostly of figures inspired or re-purposed for Fallout Post Apoc gaming, but they don't necessarily need to be made to look like the bomb has already dropped.

Robots
Felids ( khurasan style )
Police ( armored swat and security style)
technicians , ship crew in uniforms , vacc suits
Ambulance techs

The problem, I suspect, is that you have to find a place between "Stuff we already like, and already own," and "Stuff we don't have, but probably won't buy."

Add to that second one, "But we'll say we will, right until you make it --"

That place you are looking for, "Things we don't have but will certainly buy as soon as you make it!" is the holy grail of the wargames industry. Probably all industries.

I suggest bikini babes riding on flying robotic Harley Davidsons. With giant guns. It's pitifully Lowest-Common-Denominator, and may, therefore, succeed.

plastic multi-part post apoc civvy vehicles with weapon mounts.

Helicopters, figures not holding guns, groundcrew/mechanics, various ideas from I Robot; droids, demo droids, "audi" cars, dropships the list could go on and on………..

sci fi interiors and walls to play space hulk type games

Genaric bodies with add-on packs, pouches, holsters, guns, horse mounted troops with thier dismounted versions…

With that in mind, what's the reason for wanting non-humanoid aliens? Just something new and different?

Simply because the likelihood of humanoid aliens is abysmally low. Every feature of human anatomy results from a given 'historical accident' during evolution; each has a very low probability to be accidentally repeated elsewhere: as for their *combination*…..
link

[Now, it's true that the likelihood of soldiers from a FTL-mastering culture looking like sexed-up 21th C. US Marines is also abysmally low, so there's a consistency of a kind…]

Me too I can be boringly serious, at times

So it seems like you guys want more non-combatants and more vehicles.

Well, at one extent those *are* what's missing, and their lack makes it rather difficult to do "small wars" (military operations other than war), like Infinity or Rezolution. The coolest art for Infinity has firefights breaking out in the middle of an undamaged city, with civilians either looking on in horror or running like hell.

The aliens discussion is almost never-ending, a small company like Mad Robot needs to balance putting out something original with putting out something that will sell.

With that in mind, what's the reason for wanting non-humanoid aliens? Just something new and different?

I'd say mostly different. Even GW's Tyranids are still based off of HR Giger's man in a suit from Alien.

There isn't anything on the market like Ringo's Posleen, or the Ants from Steakley's Armor.

Human sci-fi civilians in jumpsuits/overalls with belt pouches, vests, boots and/or sneakers, the occasional pair of goggles, male, female, adults and children, all of various ethnicity. Suitable for civilian ship crews, ground crews, colonists, and members of underground installations. They'd be pulling double duty in sci-fi and post apocalyptic games. NO WEAPONS! Though modular hands with tools, datapads, or simply empty would be nice.

I've been hoping for these for nearly 20 years and have yet to see it happen. I guess they're just not sexy enough. And, before you type it: GZG's range is too short and I already have the "press gang" from Superfigs. Five figures don't make a vault.

Al | ravenfeastsmeadhall.blogspot.com

What abdul666lw said plus two

John T

How about some anime style.
I know Infinity is out there, but more would be Great.
Figs in the Eclipse Phase game style
..

I want Broadswords idea, but with arms that can hold weapons, too.

Multi-part, multi-pose half-equipped civvies/insurgents, with GW Catachan-style arms (stock and grip molded in, so I can put in any rifle/SMG type weapon I want).

Plastic, or metal.

I would like some civilians, too. Bonus points if you make them so you can swap out weapon arms for non-weapon arms, letting them do double duty as local militia.

For the more esoteric stuff, why not try Kickstarter? it is, of course, one thing for people to say they want something and another for them to buy, but Kickstarter forces people to put their money where their mouth is.

Oh, and for people wanting modern vehicles, it'd probably be easier and cheaper to take a look at regular model kits in 1:48 scale. There are plenty out there, and probably for a much better price than any small company can offer. I'd rather see original designs.

On the other hand, then you have to deal with scale wonkiness that wouldn't necessarily be a problem for something made BY wargamers FOR wargamers.

Mad Robot 02 May 2012 8:19 a.m. PST

So it seems like you guys want more non-combatants and more vehicles.

Err… If you count gangers as non-combatants then I suppose that's what "we guys" want based on the messages posted before yours.

I don't see how anyone can think ganger or (combat) vehicle figs are missing in 28mm but that's just me obviously. I suppose gangers are like boobs – there's never quite enough variety for some people (-:)

Really and truly civilian models and vehicles are admittedly rather thinner on the ground but there are some and depending on how you want to spin your 'verse, a lot of the nominally mil/paramil stuff will work if you just leave (most of) the guns out. This applies to civvies and their vehicles equally – ref: gangers.

Making modular civilians is a fairly good idea but may not be feasible in the context. OTOH some companies (I don't think you'd like me to mention names here) are making quite modular models at apparently cottage industry level.

The aliens discussion is almost never-ending, a small company like Mad Robot needs to balance putting out something original with putting out something that will sell.

Yes, well, I do see your point but there also the possibility of "exotic alien miniatures don't sell therefore they aren't made therefore there are no sales of exotic alien miniatures" syndrome.

The issue as to why would anyone want exotic aliens has been dealt with by a couple of posters above. However there is no reason to deny the novelty aspect either: nonhumanoids haven't been done much in a form where they would actually be (relatively) easy to do – in miniature, that is.

There are so many miniatures on the market that can be used as civvies and ship crews that it is staggering. Removing a gun from a figure or doing a head swap is relatively easy. Vehicles for 28mm gaming tend to be expensive, but then only a few are needed.
Aliens of a non-human soma type would be great, but getting folks to buy them is a whole other issue. The stuff I notice that most folks are enthusiastic about are most often just slight variations on the same old same old.
I would love to see something truly new and unique but the sad truth seems to be that, if what you make does not fit the preconceived notions of what the majority imagine, than producing a viable product is extremely difficult.
I know most of what I am saying is probably glaringly obvious, but I feel like imagination is a little stifled in science fiction and fantasy works because of nature of market expectations.

There are so many miniatures on the market that can be used as civvies and ship crews that it is staggering. Removing a gun from a figure or doing a head swap is relatively easy.

Examples, please?

Al | ravenfeastsmeadhall.blogspot.com

The development of real, new established IP, instead of re-hashing stuff that's been done to death.

Don't get me wrong, I love nostalgia, but I would prefer more original content over some "not firefly" crew members.

I agree but again, that's just me. Quite a few folks want not-X apparently so it might make sense to pick some popular X that isn't done to death yet (there are some not-Firefly stuff for example, quite a bit of not-DoctorWho etc.) and sell that. As opposed to making, say, something along there lines (and no, I don't think that's a particularly feasible or plausible design – it's just an example that popped up on a Google search):

As to the examples of what gangers/paramils/whathaveyou you can convert to civvies, I'm not sure what DKG was thinking of and the OP possibly won't like naming names, but I can think of some. The most problems I can see arise from the lack of open hands (and from making them stick to the arms, but that's getting a little ahead of the discussion) because it gets tedious to convert everyone to carry some tools or other objects. But OTOH you can find some fairly cheap zombie arms in bits shops for example that you can chop up with impunity – I spotted some that go for under $0.20 USD per hand and that's not counting any of the arms that might be of use as well.

I'd love to see some not Mass Effect.

Turians:

Salarians:

And so on and so forth.

If i may throw a couple ideas out there, I'd like to see Not Alien Legion minis be made,also some fremen in stilsuits from the original dune movie would be awesome.

Broadsword,
look at the Militia figures in the older Void line now carried by Scotia/Grendel. Copplestone castings has a bunch of civvies or easily converted, Super figs ….etc etc etc. Plenty of options in Reapers Cronoscope line…… if you look, you will see many possibilities. :)

Der Krieg Geist: I am familiar with the Press Gang, as well as the 3 civilian packs for Superfigs, the latter being a mixed bag when it comes to sculpting quality and scale (guy in a wheelchair being just as tall as a guy standing? Really?) but still serviceable for modern games. We use them in our zombie games. The news crew is quite nice.

The problem with removing guns from figures is they still have "holding a gun" body language, especially the hands, and then there's the time wasted in concealing the act with filing and putty. I modify, kit-bash and scratch-build already ~Rivets & Steam!~ and would rather not spend any more time on it than necessary.

Having a range of readily available 28mm science fiction civilians would be appreciated. If it is viewed by some as lazy or lacking imagination, so be it. I'm hoping that Mad Robot (or some other manufacturer) will see it as a business opprotunity.

Grimrod: Look for "Disparate Games" for Dune-ish figures in 28mm. Here is Chal's blog post: link . The webstore seems down, though. You may want to contact him directly.

Al | rivetsandsteam.com

Not thinking lazy or unimaginative, just adding my views on the viability of dedicated civilian miniatures :) I think it would be cool to get some made also, but I don't know if would sell enough to be marketable for Mad Robot. In the end they will have to determine that for themselves. :)
really original aliens would be most welcome.

It did look like that the idea of sciffy civvies/gangers is appealing to MR whereas really original aliens is a no-go yet again…

There is a mild problem with making dedicated sciffy civvies in that you need to mind the aesthetic a bit – some people aren't happy to mix and match different looks and styles quite so freely as might be expected. So you'd need to decide to toe some line (say, make them fit with Infinity or make them into not-X-civvies) or make one of your very own, which again is risky since too original won't sell – presumably.

Incidentally, "holding the gun" body language could as easily be seen as "angry mob" or in some cases even "panicky" body language, either of which should suit most civvy situation that come up in wargames (which, I dare guess, are a clear minority of situations for most of the players in any case). If you want them for diorama type stuff, for just walking down the street type of thing, then I agree, there isn't too much available that fits.

It did look like that the idea of sciffy civvies/gangers is appealing to MR whereas really original aliens is a no-go yet again…

Not really. I'm just trying to get a feel of what people are looking for and the "civvies" seem to be the most requested thing. There is a definite vision of what people are expecting from a set of sci-fi civilians or crewmen.

While your suggestion of "really original aliens" is interesting, there is no clear consensus as to what it would even look like, it's all too subjective. Humanoids at least provide a basis to begin a design.

Remember this guy?

link

More like that! Maybe a Roach Militia, carrying an assortment of rifles, SMGs, shotguns, etc., wearing various bits of gear – backpacks, LBE, what have you. Take Pig Iron's gear, give it to the Roaches.

Hey, you asked!

The Roach Militia has arrived! With air support and heavy infantry, too!

Back to the OP, I would love to see modern/near-future civvies with different accessories – bags, attaches, rucksacks, cane, PDA, AR goggles (hands waving in the air operating something we can't see), Segways, floating orbs, etc.