"Israeli helicopters get missile shield" Topic

So.In a game would an Israeli helicopter has a chance to avoid being shot down 3 times? First by maneuvering? Then by flares and last by the new system? Robert

Israeli helicopters get missile shield
by Staff Writers
Tel Aviv, Israel (UPI) Apr 27, 2012

Israel's military plans to arm its helicopter fleet with a protective system against shoulder-fired surface-to-air missiles it says are in the hands of Hezbollah in Lebanon and Palestinian militants in the Gaza Strip.

The system, known as Fliker and developed by Rafael Advanced Defense Systems, fires an interceptor at an incoming SAM and is designed to minimize debris to avoid shrapnel hitting the aircraft.

The rotating system "is designed to serve as the second layer of defense for helicopters and will be activated when automatic flares fail to divert an incoming missile," The Jerusalem Post reported Friday.

The unveiling of the system, which recently successfully underwent testing, is the latest in a string of new weapons the Israeli military has announced amid growing concerns that a new regional conflict is simmering.

This war, with Iran, Syria and their proxies Hezbollah and Hamas in Lebanon and Gaza the likely adversaries, is expected to focus largely on a sustained missile and rocket bombardment of the Jewish state on an unprecedented scale.

Israel's principal response would be airstrikes by its 227 ground-attack F-15 and F-16 jets, built by Boeing and Lockheed Martin, and its 80-plus attack helicopters, including 48 Boeing AH-64A/D Apaches and 33 Bell AH1-E/F Cobras.

Israel also has some 200 transport helicopters, including 73 twin-engine Sikorsky Black Hawk craft of various designations.

Israel has the Middle East's most formidable air force and has long maintained aerial supremacy over its Arab neighbors and Iran.

But Hezbollah, which is reputed to have in excess of 42,000 surface-to-surface missiles and rockets that can be unleashed on the Jewish state, is now reported to have an array of Russian-built SAMs. These weapons, supplied by Iran and Syria, could challenge Israel's mastery of the skies over Lebanon for the first time.

The Jerusalem Post recently reported that Shiite guerrillas, who have underground missile depots across their heartland in the Bekaa Valley of northeastern Lebanon along the Syrian border, now possess the SA-8, a Russian mobile SAM system with an estimated range of around 20 miles.

Hamas is believed to have received SAMs from Iran, as well as an unknown number of Soviet-era weapons plundered from Libya during and after its civil war in 2011.

Israel says it has spotted some of the 480 shoulder-fired Russian Igla-S 9K-338 SAMS, which NATO calls the SA-24 Grinch, that Western counter-terrorism officials say are missing from Libya.

The SA-24, built by Russia's KBM design bureau at Kolomna, outside Moscow, is one of the most potent surface-to-air missiles in service these days.

It's effective up to 19,000 feet and is resistant to most electronic countermeasures.

However, Israeli AH-54 gunships operating over Gaza were reported to have been able to defeat SA-24s sold to Iran and apparently passed on to the Palestinians in Gaza, as well as Hezbollah.

The Israelis haven't commented on these reports.

The Israeli air force, equipped largely with U.S.-made aircraft and weapons systems, is capable of countering the SA-8 with electronic jamming systems and precision-guided munitions.

It displayed these capabilities Sept. 6, 2007, when seven F-15I Boeing Raam fighters destroyed a suspected nuclear reactor being built by North Korea in Syria at Deir al-Zor 80 miles from the Iraqi border.

The warplanes in Operation Orchard were able to evade Syrian air defenses during the nighttime raid because an electronic warfare aircraft accompanying them blinded Syrian radars and missiles defenses.

However, if Hezbollah has SA-8s in sufficient numbers to hurl multiple missiles at Israeli aircraft it could impede airstrikes aimed at destroying surface-to-surface missile storage and launch sites that would likely be heavily defended.

In the first 36 hours of the 2006 war, Israeli warplanes destroyed most of Hezbollah's long-range missiles before they could be used but they were unable to stop a non-stop 34-day barrage on northern Israel that lasted until the final moments of the conflict.

With enough SA-8s, and the large quantity of Russian shoulder-fired SAMs Hezbollah is believed to have received from Syria over the last two years, the battle-hardened guerrillas could blunt Israeli air operations for a time to a degree not seen since the invading Egyptians drove off Israeli jets in the opening days of the 1973 war."

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If you really want to have a separate roll for each system, then I suppose you'd have the roll to decoy an incoming missile with flares, another to shoot it down, and a third roll to see if the pilot jinks hard enough.

I'd wrap all three rolls into the general 'vehicle save'.

uhm…

flares are used to decoy IR missiles. IR missiles are passive, so usually it is the pilot that decide if the evasion and flares are successful (yes I know they are some laser based senor to detect IR missiles, but hoe effective they are has never been ascertained), look this way it sound like a bloated and inaccurate press statement. I falcon 4 SOP are to be taken seriously usually you put flares on auto when you are flying in a threatened envelope.

While you are updating your ORBATs, it seems that some of the ex-Lybian arsenal is being directed to the Syrian opposition. The Lebanese seized this shipment

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"The Sierra Leone-registered ship Lutfallah II, carrying three containers filled with heavy machine guns, shells, rockets, rocket launchers and other explosives has been intercepted over allegations that the arms were intended for Syrian rebel consumption. Some of the arms seized were labeled as Libyan.

…

The craft was loaded with three containers filled with 150 tons of weapons, though apparently the initial plan was to send as many as 15 containers."

Hezbollah would be in trouble if a war breaks out now, since their supply line from Iran goes through Syria, and has been interrupted by the Syrian revolt.

There are also laser missile jammers. Don't know if the IDF uses them or not.
-Kle.

Well Arrigo the Fliker system is from Rafael Advanced Defense Systems. They are the ones who developed the "Iron Dome" system and that worked out well when it was used last.Though there were some technical difficulties. So it might not be such a "bloated and inaccurate press statement". Robert

"Fliker Will Save Your Ass
April 30, 2012: Israel has developed an APS (Active Protection System) for helicopters, to protect against RPG and similar unguided rockets. Israeli military helicopters already have anti-missile systems that detect incoming heat seeking missiles and use a laser to blind the heat sensor in the missile. An APS fires a small missile or a group of small projectiles to destroy incoming missiles or unguided rockets.

All existing APS were designed to protect ground vehicles. Most APS consist of radar to detect incoming missiles. A complete system weighs about a ton. For helicopters the system has to be a lot lighter (less than 200 kg/440 pounds) and use only rockets. Israel's current ground APS, Trophy, cannot be used because it fires off multiple projectiles, some of which might hit the helicopter's rotor. The helicopter APS, called Fliker, uses small missiles, and it was recently tested and successfully stopped an RPG rocket. More testing and refining of the system is required before it can be used in a combat zone. That would most likely be Gaza, where Hamas is amassing an arsenal of anti-aircraft weapons. But while the missile defense systems can take care of heat seeking missiles, there is still danger from the increasing number of unguided rockets (mainly RPGs) fired at low flying Israeli helicopters.

APS has been around for a long time but it only recently began to catch on. Russia pioneered the development of the APS anti-missile systems. The first one, the Drozd, entered active service in 1983, mainly for defense against American ATGMs. These the Russians feared a great deal, as American troops had a lot of them, and the Russians knew these missiles (like TOW) worked. Russia went on to improve their APS systems but was never able to export many of them. This was largely because these systems were expensive (over $100,000 USD per vehicle), no one trusted Russian hi-tech that much and new tanks, like the American M-1, were seen as a bigger threat than ATGMs.

Meanwhile, Israel was the first country to develop an APS that worked in combat. Last year the Israeli Trophy APS destroyed incoming RPG rockets and guided missiles. All this came a year after first equipping Merkava tanks with APS. Trophy, like Fliker, operates automatically, and the crew doesn't realize the missile or RPG rocket has been stopped until afterwards. That, however, is how APS is supposed to work.

This first combat use is a big deal because APS has been around for nearly three decades but demand, and sales, has been slow. The main purpose of APS is to stop ATGMs, but on less heavily armored vehicles stopping RPG type warheads is important as well. The Israeli Trophy APS uses better, more reliable, and more expensive technology than the original Russian Drozd (or its successors, like Arena) APS. For about $300,000 USD per system Trophy will protect a vehicle from ATGMs (Anti-Tank Guided Missiles) as well as RPGs (which are much more common in combat zones). Israel is the first Western nation to have a lot of their tanks shot up by modern ATGMs and apparently fears the situation will only get worse. "

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"Following the Trophy Success, RAFAEL Develops Hard Kill Countermeasures for Helicopters
Tamir Eshel April 27, 2012 09:11

RAFAEL has demonstrated key elements for an active defense system for helicopters, designed to protect from unguided weapons such as Rocket Propelled Grenades (RPG). These threats that are typically fired from very short range, proved lethal against helicopters in recent conflicts, particularly in Iraq, Afghanistan and Somalia. In a recent terror attack on the Southern border near Eilat, terrorists fired RPGs against Israeli attack helicopters, but luckily did not hit them.

Shoulder-Launched, Man Portable guided Missiles (MANPADS) are considered the common threat to helicopters and aircraft they are typically engaged by countermeasures (also known as ‘soft kill' defenses). Such countermeasures include flares, infrared jammers and electronic countermeasures, aiming to distract, confuse or incapacitate the ‘soft elements' of the threat, like the guidance systems of incoming missiles missiles, or their command links. In contrast, the RPG does not have a ‘soft side', it is unguided, fired at a straight line from very short range, and when the warhead is activated, on impact with the target or other objects, its relatively large warhead causes an explosion that would destroy a soft target like a helicopter.

Widely used with insurgents and terrorist groups worldwide, RPGs and MANPADS are posing a significant threat to helicopters, particularly in the take-off, landing and low hovering phase, as they make a large, slow and vulnerable target. MANPADS such as the Stinger, SA-7, 14, 18 and latest generation SA-24 are widely available, putting at risk aircraft and helicopters at low and medium altitudes. A number of new countermeasures are designed to address the advanced MANPADS threats, including new laser-based directional infrared countermeasures (DIRCM) and multi-spectral flares, but the RPG threat has sofar remained unchallenged.

During the feasibility test held in September 2011 the Fliker interceptor demonstrated effective kill of an RPG, at a safe distance from the protected platform. According to the test engineers, "the warhead performed a perfect kill, the interceptor was launched on time, calibrated itself, identified the target and activated the fuse, it scored a hit at the center of the RPG, exactly where we planned, and neutralizad it, exactly where we planned". Photo: RAFAEL

RAFAEL's new ‘Hard Kill' technology marked an important milestone in September 2011, demonstrating the kill of an incoming RPG at a safe distance from the protected platform. The new system dubbed ‘Fliker' is developed by the company's MANOR Technologies Division with support by the Israeli MOD Defense Research & Development Directorate (DRDD).

Fliker is designed as an add-on defensive layer, augmenting existing warning systems and countermeasures used on combat helicopters. As such, it will be activated after all other measures have failed to defeat the threat, meaning the time remaining for engagement and the distance to the target are shortest. To minimize response time Manor designers developed a new launcher for this application, combining pyrotechnic charges and high speed electrical motors to achieve very high traverse rate, while aiming at the target with high accuracy to achive effective kill without initiating the RPG's explosive charge. (the same counter-RPG concept is used in hard kill systems on tanks).

Specialized in the development of warheads, MANOR defined a unique kill mechanism for the Fliker, taking the impact point as far as possible from the protected platform and reducing collateral damage effect to minimize the risk of debris hitting the helicopter. The warhead is activated by an advanced optical proximity sensor also developed by RAFAEL. Fliker is designed as an add-on kit augmenting existing self protection systems operating on helicopters. The kit will include the specialized turret, interceptors and software enhancements to the self protection system, that will identify a threat ‘not responding' to soft kill countermeasures, thus activating Fliker for the hard-kill."
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I wonder if it will do as well or the same as "Iron Dome".
Robert

"Specialized in the development of warheads, MANOR defined a unique kill mechanism for the Fliker, taking the impact point as far as possible from the protected platform and reducing collateral damage effect to minimize the risk of debris hitting the helicopter. The warhead is activated by an advanced optical proximity sensor also developed by RAFAEL. Fliker is designed as an add-on kit augmenting existing self protection systems operating on helicopters. The kit will include the specialized turret, interceptors and software enhancements to the self protection system, that will identify a threat ‘not responding' to soft kill countermeasures, thus activating Fliker for the hard-kill."