"Confederate flag prom dress keeps TN student " Topic

…from celebration.

link

Don't understand well. The colors or the old Confederation flag are prohibited even in the South?
Why?.
In understand about a nazi flag or dress, but…?

Amicalement
Armand

You answered your own question. Many people, especially in the South, view the Confederate flag in the same light as some people view a Nazi flag.

Opinions differ of course. I have no personal problem with it in the proper context. Murphy's member icon is an example, but then I understand the context in which it is presented. Some people however present as an active act of provocation. That is a different matter. Reading the news story, I'm left with the impression that this was an act of provocation.

Get yer popcorn. This could get interesting.

While having now come to the conclusion the North would have been better off letting the South go, there are just somethings that take more then a 150 years to forget for some people.

That flag is politically charged in the US, particularly in the South. Many people consider it an important historic artifact of a troubled time, others view it simply as a symbol of racism. Some just don't care.

It seems a bit silly not to let her into the prom if no one else was objecting. BUT, if she had gone in and there had been an incident, everyone would blame the principal for poor judgement. That poor sap couldn't do the right thing no matter what he did because SOMEONE would be mad at him.

Personally, I would have liked a better photo of the dress. The hemline and cut seemed wrong for her figure…

HMMMM. Maybe I've been watching too much Project Runway?

I have to agree with Jay, this seems like it was an act of provocation.

I'll also add that in the US you can sue anyone for anything, or just about. This has lead to many in authority being over cautious about many things. I'm sure that the priniciple felt "better safe than sorry" about letting her in.

And frankly, by cold calculation, an offended party would most likly get better traction in court than the young lady who was barred from the prom.

What is clearly forgotten, or likely just not taught, is that Tennessee was arguably the most evenly divided state in the Union (or the Confederacy, for that matter) and the last to secede. East Tennessee was overwhelmingly pro-Union, West Tennessee likewise pro-Seccessionist and Middle Tennessee more or less equally divided. Even after secession, Tennessee provided formidable numbers of troops for the Union.

Despite my utter loathing and contempt for the Confederacy and its symbols, I see no reason why this girl should have been barred from prom. Every year, countless thousands of girls dressed like s are allowed into prom, no questions asked. Besides, as the article assures us, it was okay with the black kids.

Make no mistake, she is getting EXACTLY the attention she wanted when deciding to where that dress to the prom.

If she lived two or three hours west, she'd just have been wearing part of her state flag.

Make no mistake, she is getting EXACTLY the attention she wanted when deciding to where that dress to the prom.

Bingo. Would have been far better (and also crueler to the little twit) to just ignore it.

Doug

"an offended party would most likly get better traction in court"

You can't sue because you're offended…at least not yet. Simple Political Corrctness taken to the ultimate goal. Everything we do, think, say, or wear must be approved.

It's not the colors it's the flag that many people have trouble with and it's not prohibited but it's not in good taste.
I have to side with the people here who said she knew exactly what she was doing, and I'm not sure I buy the no one finding it objectionable part.

Exactly. A few people *said* no one found it objectionable, but I seriously doubt that *no one* was bothered by it.

She was also warned well in advance that it would be a problem.

She wanted the attention, maybe get on one of the morning news shows.

Free speech is still free speech. While offensive, if ignored, it takes the fun out of it for those trying to garner attention.

Schools are not bastions of free speech though. As weird as this may sound to others, those under 18 aren't allowed true free speech in this country; at least on school property. The schools want control and not disruption of education; I actually happen to agree in this context. However, very few truly understand the historical context of the flag.

My uncle in Italy happens to fly a rebel flag on occassion. He is not American, nor has he every lived here. However, he flies the flag in rebellion to government that keeps removing his freedoms (namely, Socialist Italy). You could just as easily say that the U.S. flag prior to the Civil Rights ammendment was a symbol of racism too. After all, segregation was a practice in the North as well as the South.

Having said all this, the flag has come to mean racism to many in this country because it symbolizes a past that included the ultimate in racism; namely the enslavement of those of African descent; blacks. I am not black but can easily see where it offends others, not just blacks. It doesn't offend me unless it is flown by a bunch of KKK activists or Neo-Nazi's. And then, it really offends. Context is everything.

Good Grief!

I wonder if the school officials just thought it would be easier to make a fuss over this than do something hard like improve literacy rates or something…

You can always tell when the burgulary figures are going to be bad when the Chief Constables start fulminating on TV about farmers owning guns or speed limits being set too high….

Even if it's heritage not hate, you still can't wear that without offending someone. So out of respect, don't do it. This girl is obviously desperate for attention and she got it.

I don't wear a swastika outside in public, even when it's well hidden in a garment pattern. Yup, I'm "Hindu", but I know that a white guy sporting even a proper swastika would be as offensive as all get out to a lot of very reasonable people and understandably so.

I grew up in a Klan town. They influenced everything from mayor on down and even had billboards on the major freeway coming into town. Some of my friends from high school are still Klansmen. While I am sure this young lady is incredibly well versed with the subtleties of history and culture, I hear those exact same "heritage not hate" arguments out of my racist neighbors. Sadly, they co-opted the argument so it's time to come up with a better/different one.

It represents very little heritage, and lots o hate.

If half the people who make that argument were even aware of the other versions of the CSA flags, I would be more prone to listen.

You gotta admit, it's a fairly masterful attempt at trolling for someone so young.

First off…anyone that wears a flag as clothing in that manner is screaming "look at me! Look at me!"
Secondly, she could've worn the First National and no one would've been any wiser….

In the end, at least in the U.S., protected free speech is protected free speech. Just because someone may be offended by the dress does not take her right to express herself away. It does not matter if its a CSA flag, a Nazi symbol, a Black Panther shirt or whatever.

Despite my utter loathing and contempt for the Confederacy and its symbols, I see no reason why this girl should have been barred from prom. Every year, countless thousands of girls dressed like s are allowed into prom, no questions asked.

Google "Kelly Pickler Prom Dress" for confirmation of that.
Remember that little trollop from American Idiol a few years ago?

Indeed.

Since it's a prom, it's an official school function, and the supreme court says it's not protected speech. The school exercises a strong in loco parentis and gets to set the standards for dress and speech. This school did.

I would like to know how the OFM knows what Kelly Pickler wore to the prom. :) :)

Why, Google, of course!

Four years is an awful short time to build a "heritage"…

To help with understanding the problem a bit more, the neo-Nazi types and others of that ilk like to parade that flag around along with their Nazi swastika apparel and flags. Unfortunately for the historicity of the flag it is beginning to take on a strong taint of Nazism.

Googling "Rebel Flag Dress" brings up a lot of stuff and it all appears to look rather like rather poor dress choices.

I'll pass on commenting regarding "Rebel Flag Bikini" search results…

Cheers,

The Bandit

BAD TASTE! The flag is a symbol of several things, some of it unearned. The KKK and the American neonazi kooks come to mind. The flag doesnt deserve to be affiliated to organizations like that. It does and can however stir resentment in the black communities for obvious and understandable reasons, but it IS a part of our nations heritage. Its display should be done in reverence for all positions concerned. Black heritage included. It belongs in a museum, It belongs in Living history displays and CW re-enactments. It does not belong at a KKK/neofascist rally, but you cant make people be smart about anything in this country (or any other for that matter). MTCW === here come the slings and arrows ===

I think every poster pretty much agrees with you, CR.

I agree that the Battle Flag has no place on public buildings nor any association with a public body. I was delighted when Mississippi saw the light in 2001!

It is an indissoluble link with a rebellion against a constitutionally elected government and the institution of slavery that cannot be wished away.

However, its appropriation by racist organizations and individuals is inevitable and mirrored by similar groupings with variations of their own national or historical flags all over the world.

The only way of tackling this is to ban its public display in any form, which is not going to happen and is 150 years too late anyway!

Besides, even the Federal Government in Germany is starting to see its grip sliding on their similar issue and the Allies gave them a flying start on that one!

For the avoidance of doubt if I were the Principal of the High School in question I would have spun that young woman round on her heel too but as they say – no cure for stupid!

For what its worth, I do not consider Kelly Pickler's dress a problem.

Her folks may have been short changed on the material they got for their money but its not offensive – well not to me at any rate.

Perhaps this is a marker for my having gone past the 'your not going out looking like that' age and having moved into the 'dirty old man' era!

I too was glad that the people of my state, Mississippi, "saw the light" in 2001 and voted by an overwhelming majority to keep the the old battle flag in our state flag.

I find the presence of the U.S. flag at Beauvior to be offensive but I don't lose any sleep over it. It's pretty offensive to pull into a curb store in Vicksburg and see a monument to the people that destroyed the place. What are you gonna do…unless it's dark and you need to relieve yourself.

I actually don't think the dress is a good idea because it's disrespectful to the flag…but, obviously, we all have profoundly different views on the matter.

Scott Kursk wrote:

I grew up in a Klan town. They influenced everything from mayor on down and even had billboards on the major freeway coming into town. Some of my friends from high school are still Klansmen.

Vidor, Texas, huh?

While the Confederate battle flag was not one of the many national flags of the Confederacy, it unfortunatle has been co-opted by the Klan and other racist groups and it stereotypically has been associated with other extremists. Based upon that, I can understand why the general public is offended by its display.

On those grounds I would have discouraged her from wearing it. From the perspective of a teacher who taught U.S. Civil war history , I can tell tou that its presence in an historical setting in the classroom sends administrators into a panic, particulary in a PC setting.

I am not offended by it but I can understand why others would be.

Joe Martin

No, Pasadena. Though Vidor was the kind of town that even people from Pasadena could look down upon.

In all fairness, all the racist rednecks moved out of town for the most part. It's a pretty different town now.

Smithfield, NC, also had a Klan billboard on US70 until at least 1977.

If you do a Google image search, you'll see that the Smithfield Klan was firmly against "intergration" (sic).

Really, you can't make this stuff up. Unfortunately.

In my country – England – the Saint George's cross flag has unfortunately been appropriated by the British National Party – a sort of UK KKK – so that it is swiftly becoming tainted by their racism and it is difficult for others to display it without being thought to be racists or football fans.

…without being thought to be racists or football fans.

Wow, I think I'd find another sport to follow if that's how I was percieved by the general public!

Yes, as already had been noted … to some in the USA the "Stars & Bars" Rebel flag is as distasteful as the NAZI swastika worldwide … Skinheads/KKK/Neo-Nazis, etc., sometimes fly both … making sure they upset most people … for whatever reasons …