"French Potez 631 night-fighter" Topic

Well here is another aircraft I can add to my night-fighter stable. I hadn't seen this IIRC. Robert

"The French Potez 631 night-fighter corresponded in many respects to the RAF's Bristol Blenheim, being very similar in size and performance (though somewhat lighter) as well as being conceived as a variation of a light bomber. The French aircraft was one of a family of design variations of the Potez 63 which had originated in a requirement issued in 1934 for a two/ three-seat 'multi-purpose' aircraft. Although a night-fighter prototype had flown in March 1937 as the Potez 631-0, French re-equipment policies were blurred by lack of purpose (being confused by the likely form of warfare being studied by Germany), with the result that orders for development aircraft included four-general purpose two/three-seat day/night fighters, three two-seat night-fighters, one light bomber, one reconnaissance aircraft and one close-support aircraft. Relatively little importance was placed on the Potez 631 night-fighter, and it was not until June 1938 that production orders totalling 207 were confirmed.

By 1 April 1939 the Armee de l'Air had taken delivery of 88 aircraft, of which 20 were in service; in May two night-fighter units, Groupes de Chasse de Nuit GCN III/l and II/4, and one day fighter unit, GC II/8, were equipped with about 30 aircraft; four other Potez 631s were serving at Djibouti. At the outbreak of war a total of 206 aircraft had been delivered, and the type had also joined GCN 1/13 and GCN 11/13, as well as seven escadres de chasse. Some aircraft were later transferred to the Aeronavale. When the German attack opened in the West the various Potez 631 units were in constant action both by day and night, although lack of radar prevented much success during the hours of darkness. In the first 11 days of the campaign Aeronavale's Flotille F 1C shot down 12 German aircraft for the loss of eight, but the Armee de l'Air night-fighter units were ordered to assume day ground-attack duties, losing heavily to enemy flak. Moreover, losses were exceptionally heavy to Allied guns and fighters as a result of the Potez 631's superficial similarity to the German Messerschmitt Bf 110; it has been estimated that as many as 30 of the French aircraft were shot down in error. In all, Potez 631 night-fighters destroyed a total of 29 German aircraft in the Battle of France, but for a loss of 93 of their own number. Of the remainder about 110 were in the Free French Zone (Vichy France) at the time of the armistice, but their number dwindled quickly because of a chronic lack of spares, although ECN 3/13 moved to Tunisia with a small number of Potez 631s in June 1941. "

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Was the Luftwaffe running night ops during the Battle of France?

I've never seen that one before. It bears a pretty strong resemblance to the Me-110.

Mike

At least on May 10-11 they did and I believe that there were harassing sorties at night also. Robert

"I've never seen that one before. It bears a pretty strong resemblance to the Me-110."

Sounds like that was another problem Mike. It was shot at and down by the Germans,French and British. Robert

Tumbling Dice carries them in 1/600 so I think I may have to get some for my French and Romanian Air Forces . Robert

My 1/600 Miniature Aircraft Wargaming Yahoo Group
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Very interesting. I see that H & R makes it in 1/300.

cheers

There are a couple of interesting scenarios that could be gamed too,

"The night fighter units achieved their first success on 18 May, when an aircraft from E.C.N. 1/13 shot down a Heinkel He 111. Sadly on the same day the aircraft's resemblance to the Bf 110 resulted in Potez 631 being shot down by a M.S. 406 after being attacked by German fighters and French flak. Another Potez was shot down by three Bloch 152s on 23 May, and on the following day the Armée de l'Air ordered recognition stripes to be painted on each aircraft (5m long white stripes on the fuselage)."

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Robert

My 1/600 Miniature Aircraft Wargaming Yahoo Group
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Opppsss my bad. The Rumanians had the bomber version not the night-fighter version. Robert

My 1/600 Miniature Aircraft Wargaming Yahoo Group
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Definitely looks like a dangerous aircraft to be flying in,

Sources:
Martin's book about Armée de l'Air losses ("Ils étaient là")
Gillet's books on French victoires (tome 1, 10-15 May, tome 2, 16 May-4 June)

AéroJournal n° 3 (about night fighters Potez 631, often identified as Bf110)

13 May 1940: two Potez 631 ECMJ 1/16 damaged by Hurricanes near Betheniville. No loss.

18 May 1940: Potez 631 ECN 2/13 hit by He 111, Bf 110, French AA and Morane 406 near Creil, returned to base.
18 May 1940: two Potez 631 of AC2 shot down by Blenheim 248 Sqn RAF off Nieuport. 3 KIA, 1 WIA

20 May 1940: Potez 631 ECN 2/13 damaged by D520.

21 May 1940: D520 GC II/3 shot down by return fire of Potez 631 ECN 4/13 (during 4th attack) over Oise. Pilot KIA

23 May 1940: Potez 631 ECN 3/13 shot down by Bloch 152 GC I/1. 1 KIA, 1 WIA

2 Jun 1940: Potez 631 ECN 1/13 hit by French AA over Lassigny. 1 WIA
2 Jun 1940: two Potez 631 ECN 4/13 hit by French AA over Villers-Coterets. 1 force-landed and lost. 3 WIA.

3 Jun 1940: Potez 631 ECN 1/13 attacked by French AA, 7 Bf 109s and 1 Bloch 152 during German raid on Paris. Pilot reported the Bf 109s were the less dangerous.
3 Jun 1940: two Potez 631 ECN 4/13 fired on by French AA (of their own airfield) during German raid on Paris.

22 Jun 1940: CAMS 55.10 of 4S1 shot down by Morane GC III/5 near Cape Zerbib, Tunisia. Pilot wounded

"3 Jun 1940: Potez 631 ECN 1/13 attacked by French AA, 7 Bf 109s and 1 Bloch 152 during German raid on Paris. Pilot reported the Bf 109s were the less dangerous."

Found this humorous Robert

The Potez 63 was originally designed in answer to a French Air Ministry specification issued October 31, 1934, for a Multiplace legere de Defense, or light, multi-seat defensive aircraft. The specification called for an aircraft able to perform the roles of fighter control (three-seat C3) bomber escort; daylight interceptor (two-seat C2); and night-fighter (two-seat Cn2). The first prototype Potez 630 flew April 25, 1936. Ten more prototypes were tested before a production order was placed in 1937 for 80 Potez 630s, powered by two 580 h.p. Hispano-Suiza 14 radials, and 80 Potez 631s,powred by 670 h.p. Gnome-Rhone 14 Mars radials. A total of 702 production aircraft were built, including thee non-fighter versions. The Potez 633 B2, a light bomber version with a partially glazed nose ordered by Romania and Greece, though all but 21 were retained by France; the Potez 637 A3, a three-seat reconnaissance version with a ventral gondola for the observer; and the Potez 63-11 with an extensively redesigned fully glazed nose and a short crew canopy.

With a top speed of only 274 m.p.h., the Potez 631 suffered from the inability of the French aircraft industry to produce high-powered aircraft engines as the Germans and British had done. In the event, the only German bomber the Potez 631 would outperform was the He-111,with both the Do-17 and the Ju-88 being able to outrun it.

As the outbreak of war, the Armee de l'Air had 80 Potez 630s and 206 Potez 631s, with 117 in first-line units. In February 1940, the severely-underpowered Potez 630s were converted into dual control multi-engine trainers, and it was decided to up the armament of the Potez 631 from 2 20mm cannon and 2 7.62mm machine guns in the nose with a 7.62mm machine gun in the rear for defense, by adding four additional 7.62mm weapons under the wings. In the event, only two Potez 631s would fly with this armament before the armistice.

Following the German attack on May 10,1940, the Potez 631s were unable to intercept any German bombers at night. The French high command decided to commit the Potez631s to ground-attack missions. The first, by 18 Potez 631s against Wehrmacht units near Fourmies, resulted in the loss of six to German flak. On May 18, a Potez 631 finally succeeded in shooting down a He-111. During the Battle of France, the Potez 631s of the Armee de l'Air managed to shoot down 4 confirmed and 8 probables, for a loss of 10 to enemy action.

The two Aeronavale units, based at Calais-Marck, Escadrilles AC1 and AC2 of Flottille F1C, had the greatest success, shooting down 12 German aircraft over the North Sea for a loss of 8 of their own.

Called the French Me-110, the Potez 631 suffered from its similarity to the German twin, and three were shot down by their own side, in addition to several others being shot up.

Following the Armistice, 112 Potez 631s were deployed to Vichy France, with another 53 based in North Africa. When the Germans occupied Vichy in November 1942, they took over 134 Potez 63s of all variants, several of which were sent on to the Rumanian Air Force. Three of these were recaptured in September 1944 by the FFI and used by GR III/33 on recon missions over the German strongholds in the Atlantic pocket over the remaining months of the war. These were used after the war at the Flight Research Center for rocket tests. "

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Seems to be another aircraft to use in Indo-China. Robert

"Two export orders were also received, one for four aircraft from China and one for a single aircraft for Yugoslavia. Neither of these orders were fulfilled, although the aircraft destined for China did reach the Far East. They were then seized by the French in Indo-China at the start of the war in Europe. In September 1940 they took part in the short three-day conflict after the Japanese invaded Tonkin."

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A little bit more information on the 3 in Indochina. Robert

"Three Potez 631C bought by China (hence the C designation) were impounded in Haiphong. Two were used for reconnaissance until 1943, the third being used for spares. One aircraft was assigned to the squadron commander of G.A.A. 42, the other one probably went to the commander of G.A.A. 41"

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According to another site only two made it to Indochina. Robert

Nice shot of a Potez.631 in German service with engines uncovered. Robert

"The Potez 631 was the Gnome-Rhone 14M powered development of the Potez 630, a three seat fighter that was built to the requirements of a specification issued in October of 1934. The prototype was found to possess excellent flying qualities. After rectifying a number of minor defects in longitudinal stability at low speeds and some improvement of the control balance the production of 80 630's was begun in May of 1937, these being equipped with Hispano-Suiza 14AB 10/11 engines. Simultaneously 140 631's were ordered these having the Gnome-Rhone 14M engines. The first production 630 was flown in February or 1938 and the first deliveries to squadrons was made before the end of the year. Due to engine problems most units originally equipped with the 630's were re-equipped with the 631's prior to May 1, 1939. At the time of the German onslaught in May, seven 631 equipped squadrons were based in northern France with an eighth based at Loyettes, near Lyons. In combat the performance of the 631 was found wanting and many were used for ground strafing operations. During the Battle of France, the Potez 631s managed to shoot down 4 confirmed and 8 probables, for a loss of 10 to enemy action. Two Aeronavale units, based at Calais-Marck, Escadrilles AC1 and AC2 of Flottille F1C, had the greatest success, shooting down 12 German aircraft over the North Sea for a loss of 8 of their own. With a similar appearance to the Bf-110, the Potez 631 suffered from its similarity to the German twin, and three were shot down by their own side, in addition to several others being shot up. "

olddogsplanes.com/631.html

So how many of you use aircraft for Decoys? Robert

"The beach at Querqueville near Cherbourg – ca. 1941. Potez 631 aeroplanes that had been captured during the
Battle of France, had served for some time as decoys with German crosses painted on. Later they were pushed
onto the beach, presumably to make space at the aerodrome (Mr. Green's gallery)."

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In Djibouti

" The local detachment of the Air Force had 4 Potez 631 (that was more modern in many miles around) and 14 Potez-25 and 29 (for recognition) and two AAA batteries lightly. Three MS-406 had been sent there in 1939, but their mechanics were very poorly supported climate (their pilots had also joined Beirut in early 1940). "

Robert

"Production remained disappointingly slow, hampered by shortages of engines, propellers, and guns. On 1 January 1939 the air force should have had a total of 201 model 630 and 631 fighters in service; it actually had 45 and 27, respectively. In the factories, 74 airframes were still awaiting engines, while many of the aircraft delivered had temporary two-bladed wooden propellers, instead of the metal three-bladed service unit. The planned armament of two 20-mm cannon was not available for the first 630s, so they were armed with four 7.5-mm machine guns instead. Many 631s had just one 20-mm cannon fitted, the other being temporarily replaced by a 7.5-mm gun.

At the outbreak of war the deliveries totalled 206 Potez 631s and 85 Potez 630s, but many had not yet reached combat units. In early 1940, the idea of using the aircraft as a
flying command post was abandoned, and the last 630s were withdrawn from operational service. To improve the firepower of the 631s, the second 20-mm cannon would be installed during overhaul. It was also intended that four additional machine guns would be added under the wings, but only a handful of aircraft were so modified. Six night fighter groups (GCN, Groupe de Chasse de Nuit) were equipped with Potez 631s in May 1940; the type was no longer present in day fighter units. "

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