"Gettysburg in miniature...to scale" Topic

Hi everyone, I am new here but not new to ACW miniatures. Some years ago I had started on a pretty ambitious project…building the entire AOP and ANV, to SCALE, in 15mm. Before you laugh out loud…I actually got pretty far (between combat deployments, busy life, and sometimes just periodic lack of enthusiasm) I managed to complete the entire Union I Corps & II Corps, some other selected regiments from III and V Corps…and McLaws' and Hood's Division for the Confederates…there were about 35,000 I had painted (seven years work I think). But in 2008 in the midst of a mini-mid-life crisis (no pun intended) I sold them in small collections.
Now, I am getting ready to retire from the military and that irresistable siren kept calling me back…and just like before, I did not intend for it to become a monster…I already have three brigades (2 union, 1 rebel) numbering about 4500…about six months work.
Am I crazy? Or has anybody else ever done this before? I think if I actually follow through with this it will take me ten-twelve years…and then go completely blind and divorced!

Do it in 3mm. Thats a lot more doable. Heck, im thinking of doing it (not quite that big tho). Plus you could actually play the game, with some mechanical innovations to the table (multiple tables on wheels.). That would be something, but itd cost almost 50k bucks in 15mm, if Im not mistaken. Contrast that with 3mm. $2,000 USD bucks could get you one of the armies at 1:1. Or you could wait for O8s naps to come out and do Borodino or something. Might cost you 10k, but youd have something no one else has even thought of before (otherbthan me…).

Yes. You're crazy. Welcome to the Miniatures page. You should feel right at home here with us.

I'm crazy too, but in a tiny way:

link

I had considered 10mm (tho I didn't know about 3mm)…and I know all about the cost, 50k is about right. But I stick to 15mm for two reasons: there is nothing more impressive than seeing these formed up in mass brigade formations, and the only way one can actually get an idea for what a ACW battle REALLY looked like…oceans of blue, gray/butternut…a terrifying spectacle. I was inspired but a series of paintings from an Antietam veteran…especially of the 2nd Div/II Corps assault with Dunker Church and confederate artillery in the distance, bodies everywhere and three long lines of blue advancing stretching almost to the horizon…it must have been a grand and terrifying sight. Wargaming and even reenacting just doesn't quiet compare. The second reason is I take it just a bit further…I individualize each mini, there are no two alike…even painting REGT, COMPANY, and an individual number on the bottom of the stand.
I actually do have an active life, I am returning to school, volunteer, work, have outdoor hobbies, am married…but to answer my own question…I am nuts! But it is will be so rewarding if I ever complete the project:)

I say, go for it. But pictures are a must. Take a lot of them as you go. Then if you have a relapse and decide to cash in you'll at least have the pictures.
I sold off my collection that I painted up in the seventies a couple of years ago and I kick myself for not taking pictures before I let them go.

If you want to save some money on miniatures, look at the Blue Moon line of ACW figures. The Old Glory Army card does apply to the Blue Moon line, which will allow you a 40% discount on the figures.

Blue Moon ACW; link

Information on the army card: link

Well, not THAT ambitious, but back when I was flying with the Navy, I'd paint duuring the deployments. I was able to build all of the US III Corps at 1:20 in 15mm, using the old Heritage minis. I got the unit strengths from the June 30 muster rolls.

Like Agricola73, I also painted Hood's Division, again at 1:20. They looked impressive on the table all right, even at that smaller scale.

If you want to be impressive, skip 15s and jump right to 54s.

The Hobby means different things to different people. It's nothing I've ever considered, but I wish you the best. Naturally, pics of this project are a must.

If you can accomplish this you are a "Wargamming God".

I am retired military, and am looking for the same look in Napoleonics. I went with 10mm from Old Glory with the Army card (thanks Old Glory), and have a couple of corps for the French and Austrians at 1:10. I just keep plucking away. Not really looking for any specific battle, just masses of troops.

Go for it.

You're totally crazy … but I salute you for it!

Better Idea. Pick one portion of the battlefield, (for example, the first day's fight near McPherson's Ridge) and do all of the forces associated with just that part of the battle. This will have several advantages for you:

1) Breaks up the project into managable "bites" both from a time and financial perspective.

2) Makes you concentrate on just a "few" thousand troops at a go, rather than many times that, allowing you to pay closer attention to specific formation sizes, uniforms, colors (flags) etc. for those units, rather than producing masses of generic units.

3) When you're done with each stage, you will have something that could possibly be played as a game, albeit a super large one. (BTW, do you have any rules in mind?)

4) We'll get to see pictures sooner…. :)

5) Once you're done with each section you can decide if you've done enough. If not, move on to the next one….

You do know how to eat an elephant, don't you?

And let's not forget, it's not just the troops, it's the terrain too! What's the point to having a huge army of miniatures if it doesn't have a place to march around? Breaking up your "elephant" into smaller doable pieces will also help with that.

Where are you going to display them? That must take up a HUGE space.

pictures…Pictures…PICTURES!

Split the difference between 3mm and 10mm and go with 6mm.
I saw someone do Fredericksburg in 6mm, very impressive.

I agree. Doable in 6mm

Wow! What a project!

Likewise would love to see some pics of a brigade laid out in dfferent formations at 1:1

Does anyone do ACW plastics in 15mm yet? If not, perhaps you could interest one of the companies in doing them, especially with a bulk buy of several tens of thousands of figures!

Thanks everyone for encouraging my insanity…I have just recently started again but once I get some brigades together I will start posting pics…I had some great ones when I sold them, which I suppose is why they sold for so much. No one had ever seen it before. Terrain? That was one of the main reasons I quit back in 2008…there was no way (at the time) to do it…nor am I very skilled at it…more on this later…maybe buy a warehouse and start a museum. Rules? I had always made up my own…even with wargames such as ASL. Bluemoon? That is precisely what I am using now (along with some OG, I prefer their Zouves and also adds to the mix of rebels)…back in 08 it was Battle Honors. 54MM? No, I got addicted to 15mm back in the eighties as a kid…I could never afford or paint or have room for 150,000.
Originally I was going with Antietam, my favorite battle, but the info is sketchy when compared with Busey & Martin's book.
Question for all: I always like to paint my rebels in a variety of colors, to give it that ragged reb look with an emphasis on brown more than gray…but recently I read something that stated the ANV had just recently been issued new uniforms prior to the campaign, and they were mostly uniform gray in color…anybody know anything about this?

I'm still a 3mm proponent, but then, thats just me. The )8 3mm figs aren't like 2mm. They actually have a lot of detail and stand apart from one another. The terrain for something like what you're thinking of would get harder and harder as you go up in scale, and require more and more room for storage.

One idea that I've had, and I don't know why no one else has tried it out, is some sort of bring-and-battle mega-event at the cons. Basically everyone who wants to signs up and brings their own figs, or as many as they can, and either bases them to a standard or has some sabots they can use. Then eveyrone is assigned a command based on what they bring and they go at it.

I'm moving to LA (California LA, not the state) and when I get out there I'm going to try to convince some people into doing a gigantic 3mm project with me. If I can get ten other guys to paint up 10,000 figs each, that'll be 100,000 figs. This isn't that big of a lay out. 10k O8 figs is only like $300 USD, and the result would be pretty spectacular at a convention, IMHO worth more than spending the same amount of money on two small-ish 10mm armies, some 15s, an average sized 25mm plastics army, etc, etc…

agricola73, I also prefer the 15/18mm genre of figures for my personal collections as well. The castings today are pretty much as good as any 25/28mm and the room and cost is so much more appealing.
As I manufacturer I try to provide all the scales for the consumer and I can see how each and every scale does have a strong appeal -- I see and recognize why people choose the scale of figures they do -- however, speaking as a collector (not a manufacturer) I have spent way to much time and money going from scale to scale and I always end up back with my beloved little 15/18s. Good luck on your vqast undertaking.
Regards
Russ Dunaway

I'm thinking about doing a 1-1 diorama on the action at the Railroad Cut with the 14th Bklyn,95th NY,and 6th WI. My problem being,nobody makes ACCURATE miniatures I can use for the 14th.I plan on using Blue Moon,but they also don't make casualties,which I'll need as well..

Bob

Bob,
Battle Honors made pretty close (zouves in kepi adv), but not sure where you can find casaulties…when I did need casualties I just made my own by cutting and resoldering them. They aren't 100% accurate, but there is a little vagueness so you can paint your own details (such as their unique buttons) but still has the major elements (trousers, leggings, short jacket, kepi, etc). I only bring this up because I spent a long time trying to complete the 84th NY (14th) accurately as possible.

Bob,
Battle Honors made pretty close (zouves in kepi adv), but not sure where you can find casaulties…when I did need casualties I just made my own by cutting and resoldering them. They aren't 100% accurate, but there is a little vagueness so you can paint your own details (such as their unique buttons) but still has the major elements (trousers, leggings, short jacket, kepi, etc). I only bring this up because I spent a long time trying to complete the 84th NY (14th) accurately as possible.
>>
Well a lot of detail gets covered up by the poses and equipment,but thats not an issue. Blue Moons figures have the sash and baggy trousers,which the 84th didn't have. I know it sounds trivial,but I like my figures to be ACCURATE,not half ass.

Bob

Agricola73,

Yes, you are quite insane….and I LOVE YOU FOR IT my good man! I say go for it! That's always been a dream of mine to see that actually realized in miniature, I think it's a fantastic goal. You're in good company here.

I do like the suggestions of doing it in 6mm or 3mm though. I think that's a much more realistic goal and would be achievable without the project getting out of hand. I think personally 6mm would be the best, you'd still be able to achieve alot of detail and it would still be manageable painting and storage wise.

At one time in my gaming life I had wild dreams of doing a Zulu army in scale man for man, to represent the Impis that attacked at Islandhwana. I also had plans to do the 24th Foot who opposed them in one to one scale.

But alas, life and other things got in the way.

NOW, if someone wants to talk about doing this project in 25mm, I'll break out the medication :P

asto the color of the rebs…i'd take some of the "recent" info about mostly grey with a grain of salt.
mean to say, i've been reading gettysburg books and battle reports, soldiers manuscripts and "eyewitness accounts" for over 37 years, and alot of what i've studied is veterns accounts. most of the early, post war accounts talk of the rebs wearing butternut clothes. i tend to see these accounts as more accurate than the more modern "revisonist" rebs in mostly grey idea. ymmv.

Well I shouldn't fib…I never actually had PLANS to do them, more like daydreams and fits of delusion. lol

Bob: Mine did have a sash…it's been several years but I remember I had to paint the unique cuff design and button arrangement with a pin. Perhaps they were half ass, but I did sell them to a museum in Minnisota along with the rest of the division.
J.Lacour: My thoughts exactly…I know even new uniform issues (rare as they were) were butternut cotton from lack of dye from the blockade. I think the last time gray was close to uniform was the Seven Days battles in the east, and probably never in the west.

My friend has already painted Wellington's army that he had at Waterloo at a 1 to 1 ratio.

YouTube link

The Blue Moon ACW range will be very comprehensive so will include both types of casualities = falling, laying. I do believe there is a complete listing on the web site. When that list is complete we will be adding the more obscure units.
Also, OG15s already have packs of casualities.
Regards
Russ Dunaway

Is this the link Terry?
youtu.be/MqLoLKlbVuU

Regarding Confederate uniforms (talked to death on here, but I can't help myself). Since each state was responsible, in most cases, for their own uniforms, the variety in color and style would be from state to state, and regiment to regiment. They weren't issuing clothing that was a completely different color on a by-man basis – there was actually a decent system of supply in most of the South. Sure, some variations did occur, but other than headgear (and not even always for that) there shouldn't be a vast disparity of uniforms within the same unit. Exceptions I can think of to that would be early in the war where companies with different uniforms were amalgamated into regiments, and in 1862 when uniforms wore out and were replaced with items sent from home, captures, etc.

But they are your figures, do as you wish…

Here's a nice book that will probably answer the question, and it says it's based on contemporary accounts: link

Hey Tommy, Thanks! I've obviously screwed up the link. Nice save.

Chris you are nuts! Well done.

I second the suggestion to do that a 'bite' at a time. Build up a couple brigades that fought over one part of G'Burg, build that part of the battlefield. If you're careful with your terrain planning, you can build the entire battlefield as modules.

Of course, with 15mm troops, you're looking at 3 feet = 100 yards for your groundscale. Hope you have a barn or basketball court!

It's a bit more manageable at a slightly reduced troop ratio and 12"=100yds groundscale. (or 6mm troops 1:1)

I would have two suggestions to you…attempt to get a sponsor for your effort, it could be a very good way to get others to help provide you some of the minis needed. You may even be able to find someone from Gettysburg to assist

Going back to what was posted by the OP in his 17 April 9:55 pm follow-up:

…and even reenacting just doesn't quiet compare.

Generally, I'd agree, but there have been exceptions from my experience, most notably the 135th Antietam and Gettysburg reenactments.

I don't know why that sounds crazy.

We are all building stuff "to scale" but the scale varies. I'm doing Napoleon's entire army of 1806 at 1:60.

Big but not nuts.

35,000 figures is a lot but it is doable, there are others here (not me but maybe someday me) who have done that many or more.

Good luck to ya!

Cheers,

The Bandit

Generally, I'd agree, but there have been exceptions from my experience, most notably the 135th Antietam and Gettysburg reenactments.

I was at that event, IIRC there were more reenactors in PIckett's charge than there were in the original ;-)

Here's an account of what happens after you have the entire Gettysburg orbat in 15mm

link

Different era but I have the whole Prussian Army of 1813 in 1 = 60. Didn't think I could get there but not really that hard. Working on Russian First Army of Borodino and almost there as well although I have a lot of units not in that Army. Start in 1 = 20 to get going then turn battalions into companys so to speak. Anyway you do it good luck with your adventure.

For the people doing 3 mm. A 3mm man is 6 ft looking at a 3 mm figure from 6 ft away is like looking at a 6ft man at 1800 feet or 1/3 of a mile. I am not sure a person could even see the color of a uniform at that distance.

Good Luck with your 1:1 project. I did the first day of Gettysburg in 15mm at 1:25 a few years ago using mainly Peter Pig and Essex figures. Painting the the figures was no real problem however the scencery got completely out of control and the amount of 15mm horses was also extreme. But I got some great games out of it using Fire & Fury which I adapted for use with the regiments.