"The Wargaming Standard" Topic

What is the wargaming standard for painting?

Reasonably close with a few details left out?
A single figure that takes hours with shading?
A base coat then a dip?

I myself basecoat then use the dip method. I find that the figures look good, and I am able to put a reasonable amount of detail. Plus, it doesn't take hours to paint! I don't paint the piping on the epaulettes on 15mm figures, I just can't see it on the tabletop!

Others are different I think.

I think it depends on the person.The 'standard' paintjob is a sliding scale.

You get guys like you and me who go for the prime, paint, wash, done method. This works pretty darn well at smaller scales (15 and below), especially if most of your work's going to be seen at arms length (i.e., on the table).

And then you've got those guys who are born to be Picasso's when it comes to miniatures. Somehow (and I still suspect some sort of pact made with Lovecraftian deities) they manage to paint a miniature to museum-quality in a third of the time it would take you and I to get it to a 'tabletop'-worthy appearance. And that's normal for them!

When I hear "wargame standard," I think of a clean block painting job with details picked out. Nothing fancy, but a simple paint job.

Something like this, from my collection.

Yeah I don't no how these guys can paint so well so quickly. But "wargames standard" has always been considered what looks good at 3ft. IE distance from gamer to figures on the table. My hands are so shakey now I'm starting to drop details on my 15's,

Duke Seifried had the best line ever about how to judge brushwork.

He said, basically… "Paint your mini. Hold it up and take a look at it. If you don't like it, hold it at arm's length. If you still don't like it, then squint."

To my mind, I paint as best I can, usually base colors and dip with the occasional highlight picked out. I reserve the really good work for the command figures and banners, flags, etc.

But, as long as the minis are painted, I don't care how well someone has done it. the fact that they have invested their treasure and time to purchase and paint them is enough for me.

Tidy paintwork goes a long way to be considered a good paint job. I like my paint work & do not give any thoughts to what other people think. Its all a learning curve.
If you want finer detail invest in some decent brushes

there's only one standard, and that's your own, but you still gotta figure it out.

When I started painting as a teenager, without any guidance, I thought that first I needed to buy the correct colored paint. Then, I attempted to put it on the figure in a manner that in some way resembled the pictures that I saw in a book I had on uniforms of that period. First few tries weren't very good at all, but I got better with practice. I eventually went back and gave those first figures the "oven cleaner treatment" and repainted them to a higher standard.

Shading, washes, highlighting, dry brushing, inks, and basing other than just bright green paint came much later.

Mine is "stand off standard" – spray, block paint, wash, dry brush and go, If it looks fine at arms length it's good. With ancients etc i put effort into the shields as they hide a lot of sins, and same with flags in horse and musket, and good bases make a huge difference for not a lot of effort. I use this method even for 25 mm rank and file, but I have started to put more effort into 28 mm "signature" troops like officers, cavalry, guards etc.

If I was buying "Wargame standard" off evilbay, I would expect block painting, with correct colours for unit distinctions like French company pom-poms. I would expect colours to be mainly correct, and to look as if someone had made an effort.

I would not expect dipping, dry-brushing or shading, nor would I expect belts to be lined in black. Hair, including moustaches should be done, if present, eyes not so.

If a detail such as a button is modelled, I would expect it to have had contact with a brush.

It is horses for courses, I now paint, as best I can, then dip, that is my wargame standard as I enjoy painting and seeing a nicely detailed figure at the end, in the late 70's I did just spray a base coat, base the figure and game, but we are all older and wiser now.

Standard? There is none. Nor do I ever want to see one. One of the great things about this hobby has been the lack of "big names" and celebrities, (except of course those who are a legend in their own mind) which has been one of the best things about the hobby. Everyone paints as they wish or purchases the paint jobs that they like, and that means that anything with regard to "standard" is simply irrelevant.

Just as the American Kennel Club has devastated more breeds of dogs than mother nature, so to the intrusion of "standards", coes, requirements and such simply means that the individual and personal artisticness is stripped out of the hobby.

Painting of figures is a personal realm where it is assumed that each person does their best work. Even if they haven't done their best work, it is an unritten axiom that if that is the figures the person wishes to play with then the work is good enough. Beyond that individual painting style and what the owner/painter wishes to see is all that counts.

For those who use painting services or have others paint for them, again- everything is again in the purvew of what a person is willing to pay for. If vendor "A" is to your taste and vendor "B" is not, it matters not what the style of "A" or "B" is, it is the price point you are willing to pay and that is that.

Arguing about industry standard is really then immaterial as market forces have taken over and made absolutes like "standards" meaningless. If I like Mozart and you like Jazz, and the CD's cost $18.00 USD for either, my buying Jazz and complaining because it isn't Mozart is rather foolish. If the price for a Mozart CD is $36 USD and a Jazz CD is 20 cents, then I'm not going to buy the Jazz tape because it's cheap because I don't like jazz

I'm pretty much in agreement with rabbit. I paint a basic paint job, and that means (to me) no highlighting, shading, etc. If pants are light blue, I get my light blue paint and paint them light blue. Done. Next.

Can someone please explain to me "base coat and dip" method. It sounds SO fast, but for some reason I don't think so :)

I'm not an expert painter obviously, but here are some things I've learned.

1. No matter what scale or method DO NOT try and paint FAST. Do not try to rush or go quickly. The idea of a well painted army over night is a myth that if you chase you end with a not so well painted army and which you then go back to repaint. There is no easy, fast painting solution that looks good.

2. Every figure line has certain details that have to be painted well, meaning with a straight line and/or care rather than slapped on. Those details can change from line to line and even figure to figure within a line.

As an example, I paint ACW. If you look at line of Reb figs wearing slouch hats, the most visible feature on them is going to be the hats. More so than kepi/forage caps. Therefore, make sure you paint the slouch hats well and with colors you like b/c those will stand out more than anything else. On kepis for Yanks, I don't generally even paint the brim b/c you can't see it when the rest of the hat is dark blue. Kepis for Rebs, you almost have to paint the brim b/c you can see the contrast with the grey more easily.

If there's one thing that you have to paint well, its the muskets. I don't paint the barrel, but I do paint the rings. For some reason when a musket is just plain brown with only a bayonet painted that stands out more than anything else to me at least.

3. Color choice is important. Use brighter colors than you think you'll need. And test colors liberally. Usually it takes me a while to figure out what color scheme I want to go with for a unit. Currently, I'm debating the color scheme a little on my next brigade of Rebs. Different figures will take colors differently.

In short, there's no "quick-fix" "easy army painting" that I've ever found.

If there's a standard, I would say well painted muskets. Sharp contrasts at critical points. I just thought of another one. Faces and hands. Those have got to be straight and done well along with the muskets. If you do those well, a lot of other stuff can be overlooked.

And I'm talking 15mm, though I've also painted some 6mm. Muskets, faces and hands applies to both IMO. I'll also throw in a standard for horses. Paint the hooves of the horses a color which clearly delineates the horse from the base. Other's may disagree with me. In fact, I don't think anyone else really does that at all. But I think it looks good and is an area where sharp contrast is necessary.

Can someone please explain to me "base coat and dip" method. It sounds SO fast, but for some reason I don't think so :)

The Dip, and Magic Wash, are simple, effective, and tend to produce "good enough to game with" paint jobs, when the figures are block painted, washed, and held at arm's length. I paint assembly line style, grouping identical figures together, making the same brush stroke on each, one after the other. When the block painting is complete, they get washed (The Dip, or Magic Wash), then matte clear coated, and done. By using assembly line painting, and a wash technique, figures take a while, but when a batch is complete, I have a lot of figures done at once. So, yes, it does speed things up. My average painting time, per figure, is less than 5 minutes, start to finish. On a per figure basis, I am flying fast; on a group basis, it still takes hours, as I am working on 20-40 figures, per group. I paint 25mm-30mm, typically, but also 54mm-60mm figures. Size does not make much of a difference, really (perhaps an additional minute per figure?). YMMV. Cheers!

My personal standard is quiet high. I won't field a figure if I've done a poor job of it.

My only standard for my opponents are that it's painted to some degree. Not my place to say to what level. I don't like playing against unpainted or half painted figures though. They get moral penalties for looking shabby.

I dont think I'd wont to be on the same table as some one who would judge my figures. Aslong as they are finished and based get them on so we can play.

Just write it up as a battle report. Not a Bat Rep. Or a Batrep. THAT'S annoying!!

So, "base coat and dip" is essentially "block paint and dip" ? Is dipping like inking were certain highlights or folds are brought out ?

Overall, I get thrown when people say well, I just base coat and dip like there's nothing to it, as blocking painting alone is time consuming, though I agree there are methods which can speed things up though i would never call the process pf painting and basing miniatures "speedy".

Be patient mr Dollar, one day shapeways will make it as speedy as printing a uniform description on a laser printer.

Yes, Grizzlymc, I was wondering how that magic worked ! Great idea and a comforting thought.

To be clear, it would make no difference to me how the miniatures were painted if I were playing in a game with miniatures painted by someone else. Sure, pink might be a no go, but even spray painted and based… fine.

I recently sold a lot of my old minis on eBay which I had painted when I entered the hobby. They were done with block painting and a wash, and I described them as fair to good "wargames standard." (They kind of make me cringe these days) Several buyers wrote to tell me how impressed they were with the quality of the painting. Just goes to show how subjective standards are.

As for quick painting, stay with the smaller scales (6-10mm). A little effort and a dip go a long way, and I find I can paint a good looking unit in about four hours of work. It takes me almost as long to provide proper bases for my little guys.

I'm with 79thPA, I paint basic colors in the right places and give it a blast of Dullcoat and I'm done. I do 6mm, so if someone I'm gaming with can see buttons on a 6mm figure, great, but I sure can't. I dont wash/dip/whatever. I do a good basic job and I figure they come out easily identifiable as Anhalters or whatever at any distance, so I'm satisfied.

I think high detail painting is in part a function of the age of the eyes of the painter. Honestly, I haven't got a prayer of seeing those minute details. Even with magnification I struggle. Basically, I paint as much as I can see. In any case, 6mm means I have a LOT of figures to paint and I'd like to see them finished at some point during the remainder of my lifetime.

E-bay lot "well painted" click enlarge (snigger) sorry but thats just awful.
I think I had problems with the flesh tones,just din`t look consistent cracked that & I`m happy with what I paint.
paint in good lighting conditions all the better.Experiment

G'Day Otto

I like your posting…brilliant…

I remember once bringing my troops on the table and seeing a few players with figures that were of better quality.

We use 25mmm figures

So I thought that perhaps I should get rid of my figures and buy these new figures from the late 90s…

But then I was told this…you have been fighting with those figures since the mid 70s…they have history…and have fought many battles for you…

And he was right…

When I first bought my British Guard as a teenager…they were metal figures instead of plastic…I painted them with brown bears skins and white jackets…and in their first battle they defeated charging cavalry while in line.

Today they have the correct uniforms…and do not look as good standing next to new figures today…but they are my real Guard…and have never been replaced…

The same go for my Old Guard…they have fought on many table tops…and will continue to do so…

I gave my son all my Russians…and many of them are the old figures from the 60s which are more like 20mm…but I think they are great out on the table top…being shadowed by the larger figures…but it is always better to fight in the shade… ;-)

Best Regards
Art

Can some expalin "DiP" alittle more thoroughly? My impression is dunk figure in a thinned ink to create highlight or establish a base coat that is dark ( IE Blue for French coats)w/o painting it on…
thanks
Greg

"If a detail such as a button is modelled, I would expect it to have had contact with a brush."

So would I but it just might not be the color that you would expect to see for that button.

Bottom, we find ourselves in general agreement, although I do try to make them look like what they claim to be. Still, when I can select a uniform, define facings etc, and print out a unit ready to go I will be a happy man.
Might need to buy a warehouse to store all my figs tho.

@ MarshalGreg, yes that is just about the level of it, Go to youtube and search "army painter quick shade"… the chap with the big sheets of cardboard and the pitcher's arm has way too much money.

To use more sparingly, mount the figure on something that will not matter, I use milk-bottle tops and double sided tape, slop the stuff on until you feel you have added too much, then add some more, put the figure down, slop gloop on the next figure and put that down, now go back to the first figure and using the same brush wick off the excess, the stuff forms pools in a horizontal well and clings to the bottom of coats and sleeves. The "mtwebvideo" splash on technique about covers the method I use.

This stuff dries GLOSS, very gloss, there are loads of people who say you should use a particular matt varnish, Dull-coat is mentioned but I have never used it, I use Purity seal from the outfit that shall not be named.

Leave the figures overnight, or better still 24 hours, varnish and base, or vice versa.

There are other product out there that do similar stuff including self mix recipes on the www.

@ Mithmee

I would expect colours to be mainly correct, and to look as if someone had made an effort.

rabbit

Having been a "professional" painter last year (meaning I was out fo real work), I can say that I've never been satisfied giving my customers anything but my best. I charged about the same as an overseas painting service would and gave a lot better work for the money, IMHO. I just couldn't slop the stuff on there. Couldn't make myself do it.

Now for my own stuff, thats a different story. I actually like a nice controlled slopiness- I call it an "impressionistic look." Actually, one of the things I really wish I could do is paint poorly fast. I mean, like some of those older Napoleonic armies you used to see in Wargames Illutrated. I wish I could slap and dash in 25mm. In 15mm I can, and in 10mm, etc, but I can't do it well in 25mm. Some people are really good at making sloppy armies look good. You probably know the sort I'm talking about. Now, I dunno the next time I'll ever get a chance to collect in 15mm, but if I do I'll probably try out some dips to get this sort of effect. I may try it out in 15mm with the Blue Moon Napoleonics for that matter. I'll make my BM GNW look good, and my BM Naps massive..

Grizzly, there is a certain satisfaction to painting miniatures and the "artistic creation" part of it and designing units. But no matter what it does feel like work ! I have to say 6mm less so. But I haven't even tried painting any Napoleonics yet.

At the end of the day, a painted unit is better than none! I time myself, 3 x 28mm figures in an hour. Basic blocks first, if theres any time over, a bit of shading and highlighting. When the times up, its up, time to move onto the next batch!

Seems to work OK from 3 foot!

1 foot, maybe not so much!

link

Can someone please explain to me "base coat and dip" method. It sounds SO fast, but for some reason I don't think so :)

Well, it's faster than shading and highlighting each fold of cloth!

Prime. put down base colors, but a little lighter than you'd normally use. Try to be neat, but don't worry about leaving a gap or anything between colors.

I use an ink wash, 1 part ink, 1 part Future (sold as 'Pledge with Future Shine' now), and about 8 parts water (dropper bottles are your friend for this), and wash the whole mini. Leave them to dry overnight. Black ink can work, but brown is usually better because it looks more like dirt.

The Future alone helps make a protective finish, but it also makes a rather glossy end result. So then I go through and apply a matte varnish over the top.

I will also admit that my standard for Infinity minis (where I'm only fielding 10 models) is much higher than my standard for Flames of War or Napoleonics (or colonials), all 15mm.

15mm troops are primed black, drybrushed with the major uniform color (because that starts the shading process), then lighter colors are picked out. Brown ink wash, base, seal, done. It's a bit tough on the brushes, but that's why I use synthetics.

Infinity (and Anima Tactics) get a basecoat, washed shade, two or three highlights, based, sealed. I don't mind taking 4 hours plus per mini when I only have 10 minis to paint. I don't want to spend more than 40 hours per army, no matter what the system or scale is, though!

Thanks for explaining that Lion ! Easier said then done :) Thanks for your painting & inking recs too. It confirms that you really have got to water them down for it to work. I tried it with 1 part ink and only 2 parts water and it definitely didn't work !

And Sparker, at 1 foot that to me looks great !

Wargaming Standard used to mean block painted with most of the detail done. No highlight or shading. I guess times change.

"If a detail such as a button is modelled, I would expect it to have had contact with a brush."

So would I but it just might not be the color that you would expect to see for that button.

Ha ha ha Mithee! I'm with you there!

@Bottom Dollar: I'm used to using GW or Vallejo inks, which will really darken a mini if you don't thin the heck out of them. 1:1:8 is about perfect, as long as you use Future or something similar to help break the surface tension of the water. You don't want the ink to puddle, you want it to settle into the cracks.

An Infinity mini, but this shows the effect of the ink wash really well. If I actually had any Napoleonics finished, I would have used them for an example.

@Rabbit: The problem with painting all the sculpted detail specifically is that you really should NOT be able to see most of it at tabletop distances! A 28mm mini 3 feet away is the same visual size as a real person about 65 yards away (assuming I've done my math correctly).

stranger, stranger now that`s a weapon

All my painting is 'wargame standard'! … Simple paint jobs with no faffing about.

link

Your simple paint jobs look much better than my best! You have the skill, stanleysteve.

I will post my 15mm figures tomorrow, I have done them myself for gaming not display or collections. I think they look good but, not where I could get paid for painting.