"Smelly Gamers, Crappy Attitudes?" Topic

It was Marvin V who once asked:

Do sometimes the smelliest players also have the crappy attitudes to match?

They do generally have the worst inter-personal skills, so yes.

In my experience, they are usually two different individuals.

It may be the hygiene that causes you to remember a certain individual in a game, but in my case the ones with the crappy attitudes always stand out because of their attitude and nothing more. They are usually people that well groomed and neat, but have poor opinions of the others with whom they are gaming with around the table.

Seens as communication is not restricted to the oral variety, it would make sense, with all our senses playing a role in the interaction of human beings.

Someone should conduct a study on this topic at the next big wargames convention!

The crap on smelly gamers is not in the attitude…

Attitude problem gamers, come in all shapes, sizes, and smells.

Yeah, one is not a cause of the other. I know a couple smelly gamers that are very agreeable personality-wise.

Kyote, I'm not sure that that's not a solution: I'd think they'd smell even worse…?

Nope – some of nicest people I know are stinkers

Bring & Buys seem the worst haunts at UK events. And heavy metal tee shirts.

I suspect some people work in banks or jobcentres during the week, then rebel by wearing their ' off' Tee shirts and not washing at the weekend.

As I walked back from Twickenham after England's crowd pleasing victory over the noisey but always cheerful Irish, we passed picket lines of promo girlies from 'Dove' handing out freebie bodyspray samples from their new men's ranges.

Sports fans being sports fans, the train back into London was very fragrant (such was the euphoric need to share).

My only wonder was how to get Dove to see wargamers as an important market sector and get these girlies to our events.

They were more than adequately decorative in their insubstantial corporate outfits and the fragrancing is sometimes desperately needed.

Two very different groups, in my experience. The gamers with the worst attitudes tend to fall into one of two groups:

A. The overbearing, unjustifiably arrogant types;
B. The hyper-competitive, using-the-game-to-validate-their-existence types.

Although, seeing as both tend to be overcompensating for their own lack of self-esteem/self-worth, maybe they're just different shades of the same crayon.

- Monk

I can't say. I would guess there are those with poor hygiene that are not so bad to game with so long as you can handle the smell.

I've seen comments on these two problems for years. First off on the players with poor hygene, I have gone to many many conventions and shows and I have to say that I've only found one or two, maybe three at the most. Most gamers are quite clean and neat and do not smell.If I was going to put a percentage on it, it would be less than a quarter of a percent. Granted when they do stumble on this the resulting effect can be overwhelming but-- it's a small hazard.

Gamers with crappy attitudes are a much larger percentage. Again, depends on what you mean by "crappy attitude." Gamers are geeks and are a prickly bunch. For the most part however they are OK. Even when they get a bit much it's not like I want to take a crowbar to them. I think that one of the problems endemic to gaming is that we are at root a hobby with a lot of ANTI-social tendencies. Some gamers exhibit complete, revolting, over the top narcissism. Some gamers see nothing wrong with treating people they game with week after week in a horrible manner. The wonder is not that they do it, but that the people they so treat largely overlook it or let it wash under the bridge. I think this can arise from both nature and nurture in a way and in variations too numerous to enumerate at all let alone here. I for one am not a competative gamer, and I have no desire to beat my friends brains out in a game. I play it simply for the cameraderie and good times, the beer, the jokes, the fun, the yuks. Sometimes people have VERY different and divergent views of history, and they may be personally, intellectually, or emotionally involved iwt their interpretation and that may clash. Who knows.

On the other hand, what can you expect. There's a lot of smelly people out there who are not gamers and certainly a lot of perfectly awful people attituduinally as well and those are the ones usually running for public office.

One of the good things about our hobby is that unlike our jobs, our family, our life, and the people in government, we can take them, or not, as we fhoose.

If they go hand in hand then there are quite a few TMPers wallowing amongst unspeakable odors in their homes! 8)=

It's the fun vs realism gamers – the fun players find BO not much fun at all, the realism players find BO adds to the authenticity of recreating campaign conditions.

OSchmidt:

What a wonderful dissertation! Especially love this part:

Gamers are geeks and are a prickly bunch. For the most part however they are OK. Even when they get a bit much it's not like I want to take a crowbar to them. I think that one of the problems endemic to gaming is that we are at root a hobby with a lot of ANTI-social tendencies.

Thanks! Now where was that can of deodorant? Dean

we can take them, or not, as we fhoose

Thank goodness for fhoozing!

Bill:

That'f Old Englifh.

Tsk, Bill- never would've pegged you as a fhoozehound!

- Monk

I don't know if that's going to be a hard and fast rule, but I do think there is probably a correlation between the two things. Crappy attitudes and poor personal hygiene are often indicators of poor social skills, and I think it's not unreasonable that a poorly socialized individual would display both of these symptoms (and possibly others as well). So, in short, yes.

I too have found that they don't always go together. I have known a couple of gamers that had the bad odor thing down to a science and were otherwise really nice people as well as a few that were the poster children for good hygiene and were jerks.

This is a funny side story:

I had a physical meeting with a German retailer and manufacturer who was on business in the US. I started discussing the problem of gamers and strong body odor and he replied, "I don't know what you are talking about." He had been gaming for 10 years and never noticed stinky players. I'm not sure what that means, but I found it to be very funny.

My experience is this-only having gone to big conventions here in the US,I've never noticed too much convention "funk".Maybe it has to do with the fact that they are usually long weekend affairs,and the vast majority of gamers stay in a hotel with access to a shower and luggage,with the odd exception.Sometimes Historicon could get a little ripe on a hot day,but not overpowering.Or maybe my sniffer isnt up to par,I dunno.

If you can't tell who the stinky one at the game is, it's you.

Conventions are, in general, not smelly because of one or two individuals with bug-killing BO. They are smelly because of a thousand under-soaped armpits, the occasional possessee of the "moist" superpower, lots and lots of yesterday's cheap-n-greasy snackbar food in the final stages of digestion, hot weather (or cold weather/wet leather), musty basement-stored miniatures, and whatever is drifting in through the open doors. Not to mention whatever is left of last week's hotel events that might still be in the ventilation system.

It all adds up.

Cleanliness hasn't been a problem at my table except for greasy pizza fingers which get reminded to wipe before they grope my men.

I've had a small handful of people who could have been better sports, but only one I asked to man up or beat it.

So in general I'd say it's been pretty good. Will let you know if The Weekend changes my mind….

greasy pizza fingers which get reminded to wipe before they grope my men.

No comment.

If you can't tell who the stinky one at the game is, it's you.

And if you regularly encounter these smelly people, at games and conventions, it might be time to ask; Who is always with me wherever I go?

Dear DeanMoto

Thanks for the kind words.

It is endemic that many gamers will have anti-social tendencies. Historical Miniatures are not engendered for social reasons but for desires for adventure, romance, glory, fanatasy-- the extension of the ego over events and they deal with power. Generals and rulers of states have power and that can appeal particularly to the powerless, which gamers traditionally are. Often, they are geeks in their daily life which gives them a sense of powerlessness, especially when their expertise and vocation might be in a technical trade. Here they are often "at the mercy" of "non-techies" who tell them what to do, no matter how irrational it may be or born out of the spirit of their (the superiours technical ignorance." Hence the appeal of gaming or fantasy where one might actually BE something, even if only in ones own mind.

This is not so bad as we all day-dream and play the "Wann ich Koenig war" (If I were king). The problem is that in wargames the opponent across the way is often not valued for himself but simply as a means of moving the enemy troops that we are desirous of thrashing (and hence by extension, the opponent as well. Couple this with the nature of many gamers with themselves as a Caesar or Napoleonn come into his own, and it can be for these "once and future kings" a case of "Welcome to my world and abandon all hope yee who enter here."

I'm not a psychiatrist, but these tendencies are self evident in some gamers and all of them point to an anti-social tendency to treat the other side as something less than human. Nevertheless while they can be present in all of us they can be muted or rendered impotent. I myself have always been a non-competative gamer, and long ago realized that I couldn't lead a corporals guard across a ditch let alone men in combat, and that what was much more important was the pleasant time spent among friends (with the game being a convenient but not terribly necessary component of the social interaction.). For me the private fun is the painting, modeling, conversion, building, and writing where I can indulge my flights of fancy all of which does not have a real human being connected to it at the other end. My friends are there because I thoroughly enjoy their company, not because I need them to move the bad guys troops.

OK now let me ask the next question.

For the persons who do not make good bodily hygene decisions there is probably not much we can do.

But the questions is how do we treat or deal with the grumpy or anti-social ones?

I will advance the proposition that we should treat them with kindness and forbearance, but at the same time show by example that we eschew that behaviour. You can do this without taking the person to task or confronting them directly.

If the group is unified in this and no one else does it the player will become more and more conscious of his own exception. People tend to pick up habits from the people around them.

how do we treat or deal with the grumpy or anti-social ones?

Suggest solitaire gaming. Truly anti-social types won't be comfortable at conventions in the first place, and the sociopaths are probably trolling.

Also, "poor social skills" >< "anti-social"

Well Farstar, that's not really an answer is it?

What do you do when one does show up wherever it is.

When I had a store…
Had a customer once with a rancid mouth. No one could stand in front of him and hold a conversation for the stench was awful. He also had a know-it-all attitude as well. Another customer was always easy going and pleasant but a total slob when it came to his hygiene.

Nothing worse than doggie breath, especially of the cross-species variety.

Be careful--some lack of perceiving a bad smell doesn't mean that individual has the odor. My nose is disabled, that's why I can't be around Natural Gas etc.

Poor social skills doesn't always mean the individual is anti-social. I know a boy who grew up without real friends by living too far away for anyone to care. He's trying to fit in now, but still leaves much to be desired.

People with Aspergers Syndrome prefer activities with rules and structure. They can be obsessive collectors of objects with slight variations among the set. Often, they have encyclopediac knowledge of their area of interest. They often have poor hygiene and social skills.

Sound like any gamers you know?

It's a thing to keep in mind before one judges any fellow gamers who don't seem to fit in. They might just be wired differently, is all.

I can handle poor hygiene, just take them aside and talk to them in private if it is too bad. But a stinky attitude has to be told adjust it to adult level or find another group to socialize with.

Poor hygiene… poor lifestyle and frankly zero self respect. Don't respect yourself, then don't expect me to bear the burden for both of us. I have no time for it and won't abide by it; so I get away.

Poor attitude.. the guy has other problems manifesting itself at the game table and I have no time to contend with it. Another moron… I steer clear of that guy also.

Brush your teeth, get some Irish Spring in the groin and armpits, and if you have nothing good to say, shut up.