"Are Spartans Good Guys or Bad Guys?" Topic

In modern terms I think you have to postulate a society run on a war footing by the US Marines.

Would you want to live there if you couldn't contribute to the war effort? No, probably not, although possibly the most miserable thing to happen to you would be short rations and loss of vote.

But would you want to live in a world without the US Marines? Right, I thought not.

Spartans are good guys.

Their contribution to the world of humour was also good, even if rather Laconian.

Some of their other cultural contributions tended to be rather Spartan, though.

Their heritage… well, more than two thousand years later, pretty much every teenage boy will be able to recognise the name of Sparta. How many other ancient city states can claim the same?

Two different local high school football teams are called "The Spartans". None are called "The Athenians".

Too simplistic, I think, to define an ancient people as "good" or "bad", according to our present standards. Nevertheless, that doesn't prevent me from viewing them as a bunch of d-bags.

Good Guys- it was a tough neibourhood.

The Romans weren't too keen on Spartacus and i've read arguements that it is a reference to his ideology (after the reformed Spartan state).

Their slaves- where more of a serf class rather than slaves down the Athenian mines. As to their occasional murders- high jinks of a rough neibourhood.

It's the institutionalized pederasty that I have trouble with. (And yes, I understand that this point is debated, but still…)

Assuming you are in a battle line:

Look to your left, right, or to your rear, if you see Spartans, Spartans = good

Look across the battle field, if you see Spartans, Spartans = bad

Fixt.

But otherwise, Waco Joe for the win.

Good and bad are relative and subjective terms… but the Spartans were the Nazis of Archaic and Classical Greece with a master race complex and the 'appropriation' of lebensraum in Messenia.

Someone should start similar threads about the Romans and the Athenians.

And the Normans. And the Crusaders. And the English in the HYW, et al….

I graduated from high school as a "Spartan" too….

Agesilaus doth sway me to his side.

The first rule of the Spartans: "Don't write down any of the rules."
How cool is that? That's why we can have this discussion today.
For all the folks who suggest that morality has changed since ancient times, I suggest you read Thucydides and then read about Wisconsin politics in 2011.